Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 181

tangedyn · 10/04/08, 1:11 AM

Originally Posted by kalbear

I'm not sure what this is actually trying to simulate. 5000 AP is way too low at lvl 80, 30% crit is way too low at any level, 2.5% expertise is pretty low no matter what (either with lvl 70 using primal precision and shard of contempt), no haste is a bit wrong given what raid buffs exist (like 10% from windfury), and no tiger's fury is insane - that's missing 60 energy every 30 seconds.

The primary purpose of writing the simulator was to try to determine the best cat attack strategy, and from there to determine the preferred talents to take. It is not to guesstimate how much DPS exactly I will be doing in raid.

I don't have any level 80 raiding experiences, so I don't know exactly what are good stats to use by default. I'll be happy to change the default stats to something that resembles more of what to expect in Naxx raids, if someone with the experience can tell me what those stats are.

Or alternatively if you are not happy with the stats chosen, since the simulator allows you to configure such stats yourself, you can download the simulator and use whatever stats you like.

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wowcatsim - Google Code

sirinsa · 10/04/08, 1:36 AM

I don't think nerfing the armor modifier is a good idea because it hurts non feral/(who will probably not using an array of armor accessories) when they need to use bear/moonkin form for whatever reason. I think it is better to nerf thick hide by rolling it to some other talent, or to eliminate/nerf armored stave.

Nonrev · 10/04/08, 3:33 AM

Why do a lot of bear builds have king of the jungle in them? I can see it benefitting cats more and since bears right now dont have too much trouble with rage wouldnt the points be best spent elsewhere in a pure bear build?

nightcrowler · 10/04/08, 3:51 AM

Originally Posted by Nonrev

Why do a lot of bear builds have king of the jungle in them? I can see it benefitting cats more and since bears right now dont have too much trouble with rage wouldnt the points be best spent elsewhere in a pure bear build?

Pure bear build is 0/71/0 so you have enough points for all, hybrid builds like a 0/60/11 or 0/55/16 are made to make viable dps without giving up tanking. KoJ is the second best dps talent so is a must have, not for bear but for cat side.

Beace · 10/04/08, 4:21 AM

Originally Posted by Toranshalur

Blue post just stated the new predatory instincts only works in cat form.

mmo-champion blue tracker

In some ways I'm happy to hear this. Frees up 3 talent points to use elsewhere. Guess it'll become a pure dps or pvp talent.

Nluvnit · 10/04/08, 4:52 AM

Originally Posted by sirinsa

I don't think nerfing the armor modifier is a good idea because it hurts non feral/(who will probably not using an array of armor accessories) when they need to use bear/moonkin form for whatever reason. I think it is better to nerf thick hide by rolling it to some other talent, or to eliminate/nerf armored stave.

It not only hurts non-ferals but also cats switching to emergency tank in the middle of a fight. Can't switch to your +armor trinkets, rings and neck while in combat so now they are losing more armor than if the nerf had been done elsewhere. Personally, I was thinking perhaps it would have been better to get rid of +armor completely off of all but feral staves. Comparitively, +armor isn't anywhere near as beneficial for other classes as it is for bears and I would think the item budget could be spent on health and/or avoidance stats instead.

*Edit: Forgot to mention feral staves.

Tyvi · 10/04/08, 5:10 AM

Originally Posted by david0925

I will be a little concerned if PI's crit damage doesn't work in bear form since Prot warrior's threat/dmg is comparable to ours partially due to Impale.

Actually, Impale has most likely nothing to do with that. It's a really small TPS gain for Prot Warriors in tanking gear (read: they will spec something else if all they want is better TPS, Impale is more of a DPS talent).

Skysec · 10/04/08, 5:57 AM

Sorry if I missed it, but is the general consensus that pve bears will be 0/71/0 ? I find it really easy to spec pve cats and pvp ferals, but I'm having a hard time getting all the pve bear talents, even skipping IW

david0925 · 10/04/08, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

Actually, Impale has most likely nothing to do with that. It's a really small TPS gain for Prot Warriors in tanking gear (read: they will spec something else if all they want is better TPS, Impale is more of a DPS talent).

I should have worded that a bit differently. What I mean is that Prot warrior has access to impale as well (or rather, more readily available). With the 15% crit modifiers you get from talents for prot oriented abilities, impale became a lot better of a threat talent (not saying it's as good as PI for us, but a lot better than, say, now)

Feral Threat scales very well with PI, so unless we're also ahead in therat. This change will put us behind, and if that's unintended, can be fixed easily.

I'm not very concerned at the moment but rather was just merely interested.

Duilliath · 10/04/08, 6:15 AM

I find the whole focus on armour trinkets a bit silly anyway (from Blizzard's point of view, not ours). It would've solved quite a few problems to simply ditch them all (yes, including Mark of Tyranny and Smoking Heart of the Mountain) and adjust the Death Knight modifier up to 200% or thereabouts.

Nonrev · 10/04/08, 6:56 AM

Well with the changes to PI becomming cat only and KotJ being a cat talent would it be feasible if you plan on going full out bear to drop the two and pick up Furor for the times you have to powershift to break CC?

edit: This is assuming of course that all of PI becomes a cat only talent.

manapaws · 10/04/08, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Duilliath

I find the whole focus on armour trinkets a bit silly anyway (from Blizzard's point of view, not ours). It would've solved quite a few problems to simply ditch them all (yes, including Mark of Tyranny and Smoking Heart of the Mountain) and adjust the Death Knight modifier up to 200% or thereabouts.

I actually put a post in the beta forums saying to give us a higher multiplier and remove armor trinkets primarily, but also rings, necks and cloaks with additional armor. Then, the itemisation budget can be respent on stamina or dodge rating or expertise. This would keep all tanking classes happy, and allow for druids to not be as overpowered as blizzard developers think we are. It seems unfair to me that our class is adjusted based on what gear is available to it rather than the other way around. I'd rather the scaling not be tinkered with, lest our long term viability reduces.

Not knowing alot about DK's at this point in time, but I assume the above change can result in them having a higher multiplier as well. I highly doubt warriors / paladins would care / notice if armor jewelry/trinkets go missing.

My post got quite a few agreeing respondants. None of which had blue avatars unfortunately.

Rainman5419 · 10/04/08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Nonrev

Well with the changes to PI becomming cat only and KotJ being a cat talent would it be feasible if you plan on going full out bear to drop the two and pick up Furor for the times you have to powershift to break CC?

edit: This is assuming of course that all of PI becomes a cat only talent.

You don't even need to shift now to break CC. FFF got a nice change a while back.

foxglove · 10/04/08, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Rainman5419

You don't even need to shift now to break CC. FFF got a nice change a while back.

How does that allow you to escape from CC?

halmmar · 10/04/08, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by manapaws

I actually put a post in the beta forums saying to give us a higher multiplier and remove armor trinkets primarily, but also rings, necks and cloaks with additional armor.

I'm not sure, but won't that make feral all too strong in pvp? It also makes us very good at switching roles mid-combat (you can tank in full dps gear).

Originally Posted by foxglove

How does that allow you to escape from CC?

He's talking about breaking CC (poke a sheep from range, etc)