I'd hope that the crit damage change is not intentional. Yellow crittable attacks follow the following damage table:
If you were to change crit mod from 2.26 to 2.06, the ratio of the change simplifies to:
@30% crit, ratio = .9565 => 4.35% dmg nerf
@40% crit, ratio = .9468 => 5.32% dmg nerf
@50% crit, ratio = .9387 => 6.13% dmg nerf
@99% crit, ratio = .9119 => 8.81% dmg nerf
At 44% crit, point for point, on attacks capable of critting, PI is as strong as naturalist. Higher crit rates make PI even more valuable. Pretty much all of a tanking bear's attacks constitute yellow damage and only the lacerate bleed is incapable of critting. Taking away PI from bear is removing a considerable scaling portion of bear threat. Another repercussion is that the talent scales our aoe tanking similarly to a paladin's 1h spec (again point for point). If bear threat is truly considered to be too high, figure out the breakdown of threat in a bear's standard rotation, and reduce mangle and maul threat modifiers/additions instead of trying to gut bear dps/scaling.
I'd find it very ironic that mangle's threat multiplier was increased and PI is deemed to be the overpowering factor (if this is intended) when Blizzard has said that they themselves would prefer that DPS and gear be what scales threat instead of threat modifiers.
Threat's really not a valid reason to nerf the crit bonus portion for bear as increasing the mangle threat modifier to 1.5x then nerfing DPS scaling is completely contradictory to statements Blizzard has made in regards to scaling of threat for other tanks.
The 30% aoe damage reduction, however, is understandably probably too powerful for a tank to have, even if it's only for situational encounters. Thus, I proposed that PI also give a reduction of cooldown on barkskin. The death knight PI equivalent, Guile of Gorefiend, increases Icebound Fortitude duration, a much more powerful ability on the same cooldown length as barkskin, by 50%. A 6/12/18 sec cooldown reduction puts barkskin at a potential 5.7% average damage mitigation at best in comparison to the 4% currently (~43% buff to the ability), which still isn't quite as powerful as the extra 50% duration of IBF (50% buff to a stronger base ability). This makes barkskin a little more like a warrior's shield block or a death knight's anti magic shell rather than a crappy shield wall or divine protection. I don't see how a 42 sec barkskin cooldown would overpower a feral in pvp either, but I could be wrong.
Also, has there been any mention of removing barkskin, shield wall or divine protection from the gcd like IBF, anti magic shell, and shield block? Or is that a discrepancy Blizzard isn't very concerned about?
Who said that I'll go for a 0/71/0 build? I'll probably go for a 0/60/11 build basically taking all needed tanking talents and skipping only imp-mangle and MS as dps talent going for a good HYBRID build. But a 0/60/11 build is what I call an hybrid build not a full bear build. I can dps at 92% of the efficency and tank 98% of the efficiency, I don't call it a "Bear Build".
I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said "Bear Build" then. However, I certainly don't think a 71 feral build is *better* for bear than the build you linked. Setting aside FA/IW, since their utility depends raid comp, the only useful tanking talent you're missing is imp. mangle, and aside from Primal Tenacity, which is relevant for one fight in sunwell and none I can think of in Naxx (though I could be missing something), there are no talents you could pick up to increase your survivability. Clearly moving points out of Naturalist/OoC and picking up imp. mangle would reduce your threat in all situations, especially in low-rage situations. So your build is better for tanking than any 71-feral "Bear Build" I could come up with. Just because it's also better for cat than that 71 point bear build doesn't mean it's not what I'd call a tanking build.
I'm going to level from 70 to 80 as a mostly solo cat build, but I'm willing to put 3 points into PotP or NR to help with pre-80 5-man tanking. Which one (PotP or NR) provides the most benefit to bear mitigation? 6% dodge or 12% damage reduction?
Could you please add support for +dmg (sharpening stone, etc)?
I haven't implemented Berserk and Tiger's Fury yet, that is likely to change things around.
I will also implement a combat logger soon so that the results can be audited, also helps with debugging custom written strategies.
There could, of course, be errors in the code for either Nightcrowler's or my simulator. My source code is available for review
+dmg added to my TODO list (it's needed anyway to implement Tiger's Fury)
@coders: does anyone know a simple way to add an interface, I think it could work (to be quick) an html/java interface that write down stats in a file and starts the program. Any idea?
Why not use visual studio and make a real interface? Or do you want it on a webpage?
1. add the variables, saves that to a txt-file and run the program.
2. program saves the result to a file.
3. displays the results from that file.
Could probably work with flash, maybe even convert the program to actionscript.
If im not covered in work tomorrow il see if i can toy around with it.
monday edit: oh god, it may take a while to convert it to actionscript. The good thing is that im not that buzy at work, the bad thing is that i easily give up on things, il let you know how things work out.
monday afternoon edit: Hmm i really have to speed it up abit, think il have to rewrite the entire code from scratch. Removing bear, mana, mp5 and defense-stuff wasnt enough.
Maybe i should make a flashgame instead where you actually push mangle, rake, savage roar etc. with scrolling combat text. and a small omen/recount.
Glyph of Maul 'works' now, in that its hitting 2 targets. Its too bad Blizzard never figured out/implemented a fix to allow cleave/frontal multitarget attacks to not break cc because the dmg output with mutlti target maul, berserk and swipe is quite amazingly fun right now....
Just turn your back to the CC'ed targets. Not that hard. :P
I have to admit I have not read every post in here, as that would take a lot of time. But has anyone talked about where TF is going to fit into the cat dps rotation? I know that rake is an awesome combo point generator, so I was thinking something along the lines of:
Shred to 5CP
Shred to 5CP
Shred to 5CP
Here is where it gets iffy. How much time is left on SR is huge here. Could I FB? And if I do, I think that would be the time to use TF because of 3/3 KotJ. So I gain 60 energy, which helps generate 5 CBs quicker, and then SR and rinse and repeat?
I'm thinking that TF is most useful after a FB is that's what you're using instead of rip. I'm also thinking RIP > FB for energy efficiency unless you use TF right after it with 3/3 KotJ.
From the looks of things, it seems that to really maximize your DPS, you can no longer follow a fixed DPS rotation or cycle anymore. We'll have to play a lot more like warlocks watching their DoT timers and keeping up their DoTs. We have 3 things that need to be kept up 100% of the time in order to maximize our dps. And because of misses/dodges/crits, we cannot predict exactly when we need to put them up in a particular cycle.
From testing around with my DPS Simulator I have determined a few things:
1. Whenever Savage Roar fades, it is better to cast Savage Roar with how ever many Combo Points you have already accumulated (even if it's only 1 CP), than to continue to accumulated up to at least 2, 3, 4 or 5 Combo Points before casting Savage Roar.
2. Anytime that Rake debuff is not up is a major loss of DPS. It is therefore important to accumulated until 90 CPs (not more than that in case OoC procs and you waste energy) before using Rip or Shred (or Mangle if you are using Mangle Spam strategy). This is to avoid draining yourself of energy just before Rake debuff fades.
3. Mangle must always stay up as long as Rake is ticking.
4. Ripping with anything less than 5 CPs is a nett loss of DPS
5. Rip always does more damage than Ferocious Bite, unless you do not have the Rip glyph, in which case Ferocious Bite with 5/5 RnT and 5/5 Feral Aggression wins.
Therefore in order to maximize DPS, it seems that the strategy would not be to follow a fixed DPS cycle, but to follow the following set of logical rules at every point of time. This will require a lot of concentration, watching 2 DoT timers, 3 buff timers, combo points and energy bar. Oh, let's not forget environmental effects and moving targets...
1. If Savage Roar is down and Combo Points >= 1, cast Savage Roar
2. If Combo Points = 5, cast Rip
3. If Rake is down, cast Rake
4. If Mangle is down, cast Mangle
5. If Omen of Clarity is up OR Energy >= 90, cast Shred (or Mangle if you have 2x T6)
I'll post some logs of what happens with this strategy soon, but pretty much the Savage Roar / Rip cycles end up quite random. Sometimes there are 2 rips for every 1 savage roar, sometimes there are 2 savage roars for each rip, and sometimes it simply alternates between the two. The number of combo points on Savage Roar is quite random too, but biased towards 1 point and 5 points, followed by 2 points.
1. I need to test if SR always up is a good strategy, I've tryed it some patch ago and it didn't worked good, I'll try it again.
2. It seems reasonable, I'll implement it soon and see the result.
3. yes obviosly.
4. same as 3.
5. Not true, expecially with glyph and 2t7 you will have 19 seconds of rip. In 19 seconds you will gain usually more than 5 cp. if you scroll up the post you will see a formula made by me to calculate RIP vs FB, because if you have for example 7-8 seconds left on rip you will go better with FB or you'll waist some rip ticks.