Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 189

• sadris · 10/08/08, 10:09 AM

It is safe to assume that Deep Wounds will always be up and as such, its not necessary to concern yourself that Rake must be up at all times for FB.

nightcrowler · 10/08/08, 10:16 AM

Using only FB is 5026 dps vs. 5108 with my setup (1.6% difference), rake should always be up not only for the bleep but because is our best DPE move.

I really like having a very complicated cycle, I don't want to be a "one button" class, but what I really hope is that Blizzard will not balance Feral druid DPS on that "maximum efficiency" cycle because I think there will be a very little percent of Feral druid comunity able to keep track of that cycle. I really hope that they balance us on a "less perfect" cycle in a way that the average player have "on par" dps and if you are pro you have an "extra".

Falk · 10/08/08, 10:24 AM

It's not completely a matter of just player skill either. The more complex a cycle, the easier it is to get penalized by mobility fights of any kind.

Oiysters · 10/08/08, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by sadris

It is safe to assume that Deep Wounds will always be up and as such, its not necessary to concern yourself that Rake must be up at all times for FB.

With all the smaller guilds that will be focusing on 10 man content and the certainty of a proliferation of death knights, it is not safe to assume this.

Falk · 10/08/08, 10:29 AM

Hmm, read back a few pages... regarding gemming, I'm probably going to go bonkers with hit gems and put them in every yellow socket. Growl glyph is nice, but there's already too many to choose from. Cycles are going to be complex enough that missing is going to be quite a significant hit. Way more than it used to be.

Duilliath · 10/08/08, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by angi

If i remember correctly there was also a blue statement about shred (in general they where speaking about attacks that require you to attack from behind) not being able to be dodged in wotlk. So the value of hit and exp for dmg can not be that great. For threat in bear these two are for sure the best values you can get.

That was only in regards to PvP. Players can not dodge attacks made from behind, mobs can. Iirc, they also removed the parry check, which would affect mobs obviously. However, you wouldn't be gemming/gearing for the flukes where Gorefiend turned around to parry your shred.

tlbj6142 · 10/08/08, 10:58 AM

I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to respec next Tuesday for a Level 70 Hybrid build. I know we plan to make some some T4 (and maybe ZA) runs before the Xpac. I'm typically an off-tank (#2 in 10-mans and #3-5 in 25-mans). Maybe this one?

Do I need Thick hide? Probably. What about SotF? The 6% stats is nice, but I don't really need all that anti-crit given that my current gear more than covers it. Primal Precision? I don't have it today and I do alright. Ditto for Survival Instincts. But with lower armor, maybe I'll need a last stand button? Can I give up one of the tanking talents? NR? PotP? and still tank Gruul? The 5th Channeler in Mags?

Any thoughts? What to spec for the next 4 weeks?

nightcrowler · 10/08/08, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Falk

Hmm, read back a few pages... regarding gemming, I'm probably going to go bonkers with hit gems and put them in every yellow socket. Growl glyph is nice, but there's already too many to choose from. Cycles are going to be complex enough that missing is going to be quite a significant hit. Way more than it used to be.

As I stated before, hit and expertise are the best stats till the cap (1.3 AEP), followed by agility and strenght (1 AEP) then Crit, AP (about 0.9-0.8 AEP) and finally haste and APR (0.7 AEP).

Yes, a missed hit can screw up 30 seconds of cycle.

Snarley · 10/08/08, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dyvozvir

Oh yes, you can add 2 trinkets with separate CD, haste potion, drums and finally berserk. Keep in mind FFF for debufing. It seems that powershifting wasn’t the hardest way to dps. Definitely, this should be tested by every druid... but I dont like the idea to watch more than 7-10 things for single target dpsing.

Don’t forget the movement factors of most if not every boss fight. I am certainly not asking for a 2 button rotation but coordinating your cycle properly, watching for your debuffs to stay up (non 25 man you most likely have to watch FFF too) in order to maintain the optimal cycle is feeling like a nightmare. I am all for having some skill and attentiveness involved but it still needs to be enjoyable when you are farming raid content too.

I would like to see them either A) un-restrict a little bit more on macros or B) add a bleed effect to either shred or mangle and negate the obnoxious 9 second timer we *have* to watch during our cycle. Every 30 or so seconds is fair enough to have some "focus on living xyz boss effects" time as well as that nice feeling of *ok nice my debuffs are up now I can just focus on the fight*. In the normal guilds I have been a part of it helps a lot when i can maintain my DPS cycle and still watch for those odd times when DPS or healers get themselves in trouble with an add or over agro something or trap breaks and the hunters FD fails etc. Those splits seconds to me show some skill as well as attentiveness (it also feels more rewarding to save somebodies ass and receive a "nice" or "thank you" then spending the entire time focused on cooldowns and debuff timers).

• Caniki · 10/08/08, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to respec next Tuesday for a Level 70 Hybrid build. I know we plan to make some some T4 (and maybe ZA) runs before the Xpac. I'm typically an off-tank (#2 in 10-mans and #3-5 in 25-mans). Maybe this one?

Do I need Thick hide? Probably. What about SotF? The 6% stats is nice, but I don't really need all that anti-crit given that my current gear more than covers it. Primal Precision? I don't have it today and I do alright. Ditto for Survival Instincts. But with lower armor, maybe I'll need a last stand button? Can I give up one of the tanking talents? NR? PotP? and still tank Gruul? The 5th Channeler in Mags?

Any thoughts? What to spec for the next 4 weeks?

I'm probably going to use this to finish off Sunwell.

tlbj6142 · 10/08/08, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by droeber

I'm probably going to use this to finish off Sunwell.

I still do quite a bit of Cat DPS in our 10/25-man T4 runs. Which is what makes a hybrid spec at lvl 70 so difficult. At 80 it is not so tough, but at 70, I don't know what to give up to make a good build.

Aren't most DPS classes getting a boost to their DPS at lvl 70? If so, maybe I'll favor bear over cat in my hybrid build knowing someone else will pick-up my loss in DPS???

ranma · 10/08/08, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

His mistake was that he took the value where the entire amount of dodge was diminished to half. At that point additional dodge is diminished to far below half. So the amount of dodge for which additional dodge is diminished to half is considerably lower.

But we can't really compare dodge and defense (=dodge + miss) until we know the cap value for miss. My guess is that miss cap will be lower than the dodge cap.

A warrior who wants to stack avoidance will also use items with defense, dodge and parry on the same item instead of only defense (the itemization formula favors that).

You are right, I need retake calculus

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

As I stated before, hit and expertise are the best stats till the cap (1.3 AEP), followed by agility and strenght (1 AEP) then Crit, AP (about 0.9-0.8 AEP) and finally expertise and APR (0.7 AEP).

Yes, a missed hit can screw up 30 seconds of cycle.

You mentioned expertise twice? If I am not guessing wrong, the second expertise is actually haste that you really meant?

tangedyn · 10/08/08, 2:39 PM

I feel that Wowcatsim is ready for public release, so I have officially released Wowcatsim 1.0.0

I've added strategy suggestions from Nightcrowler into the strategy list for 1.0.0

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

Regarding the discussion with Tang about the best cycle, I've tested his ideas and... well we both have partial right.
I'll explain myself:
basically I used a 4SR/2 x finisher cycle, but Tang said that it's better to free up savage roar doing it when expire and use always RIP, well we were both wrong. At least at the gear level I'm testing (full t7.10, full heroic gear, full epic gems, full raid buffed, enchanted, food, scrolls and glyphs) it seams that the best results are with a free SR cycle and free Finisher cycle doing the finishers at 5 CP and doing SR at 4 (but it's really marginal)

Hmm.. I've tried out both the Half-FreeSR and FreeSR versions of your strategy, and I'm getting slightly better results for FreeSR. Probably have to look at it later when I have the time, maybe it differs for different gear level.

Taudark · 10/08/08, 5:46 PM

I'm getting pretty good results with 2 SR/5 rip.

nightcrowler · 10/08/08, 6:37 PM

@ranma: yes I mean haste, I've edited my post.

@tange: well the difference in my simulation is really minimal so it could be everything the important thing is that freeing SR increase DPS as you suggested.