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10/09/08, 12:28 PM
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#2851
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Eldre'Thalas
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With most assumptions pointing to the patch going live on Tuesday I think it's worth going back over this post http://elitistjerks.com/907379-post2248.html. It is excellent guidance for Bear focus talent build questions.
I am trying to think if anything has changed on Beta to reorder any of the numbers, I do not believe there has been.
Last edited by Garanthir : 10/09/08 at 12:33 PM.
Reason: Added Bear focus
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10/09/08, 12:31 PM
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#2852
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Glass Joe
Draenei Paladin
Moonrunner
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Originally Posted by tlbj6142
When you tanked, you didn't have threat issues without RnT? Did IW work on the bosses?
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No.. I wish I had some sort of threat meter so I could see things a little better, but I only had 1 problem when my Elemental Shaman opened with Chain Lightning on a group of mobs as I just hit swipe on them, he pulled two right away. That was about it.
I didn't tank Prince, so I don't know if IW works on him, but I'm pretty sure it worked on Netherspite. I've heard it's supposed to work on anything that Thunder Clap works on, and as far as I know TC works on most Raid Bosses, right?
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10/09/08, 12:34 PM
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#2853
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Von Kaiser
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I made a flash-simulator using nightcrawlers code.
Its nothing fanzy but atleast you get the feel for how our dps-cycle will look like in wotlk.
The numbers should be close to accurate, rip and rake might not tick when they actually should tick but atleast they tick the right amount of times (atleast rake).
Not sure if the energy-regen is accurate.
SCT looks horrible, and for some reason it wont show some melee-crits.
simplifieddps
theres probably more bugs with it that i havent found yet, but i threw it together in a couple of hours so dont expect to much from it.
and the code: http://d9550218.u125.surftown.se/summlan/FERALDPS.rar
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10/09/08, 12:49 PM
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#2854
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Dunemaul (EU)
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here is how i am doing in black temple on bosses in cat first i am using shred up to five combo points and than using rip for five combo points and than claw to get fast combo points and again shred and rip and again those things and i make a lot more threat like that than using mangle on boss tbh gives me more threat i think.
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10/09/08, 12:57 PM
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#2855
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Garanthir
With most assumptions pointing to the patch going live on Tuesday I think it's worth going back over this post http://elitistjerks.com/907379-post2248.html. It is excellent guidance for Bear focus talent build questions.
I am trying to think if anything has changed on Beta to reorder any of the numbers, I do not believe there has been.
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Predatory Instincts would have a value of 0 since it only works for cat form now. Other than that, I think it's correct.
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10/09/08, 1:34 PM
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#2856
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Bronzebeard (EU)
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Originally Posted by summlan
I made a flash-simulator using nightcrawlers code.
Its nothing fanzy but atleast you get the feel for how our dps-cycle will look like in wotlk.
The numbers should be close to accurate, rip and rake might not tick when they actually should tick but atleast they tick the right amount of times (atleast rake).
Not sure if the energy-regen is accurate.
SCT looks horrible, and for some reason it wont show some melee-crits.
simplifieddps
theres probably more bugs with it that i havent found yet, but i threw it together in a couple of hours so dont expect to much from it.
and the code: http://d9550218.u125.surftown.se/summlan/FERALDPS.rar
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Played on your flash a little bit and have to say, that keeping up SR, Mangle and Rake up all the time, while using TF every cooldown (and not wasting energy with it) is really difficult while running SR/Rip/FB rotation.
About flash itself: Any chance to add "Clearcasting!" message to your "SCT" and some TF cooldown timer?
Max possible DPS here should be around 5k, right? I guess, I have to practise more, as I can't break 4k  .
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10/09/08, 1:37 PM
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#2857
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Steamwheedle Cartel
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Originally Posted by Garanthir
With most assumptions pointing to the patch going live on Tuesday I think it's worth going back over this post http://elitistjerks.com/907379-post2248.html. It is excellent guidance for Bear focus talent build questions..
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Those represent TPS per talent point or do they assume max ranking??? Has someone published a ranking of talents from a defensive perspective (mitigation, avoidance, survivability)?
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10/09/08, 1:38 PM
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#2858
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Druid
Drak'thul (EU)
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Originally Posted by summlan
I made a flash-simulator using nightcrawlers code.
Its nothing fanzy but atleast you get the feel for how our dps-cycle will look like in wotlk.
The numbers should be close to accurate, rip and rake might not tick when they actually should tick but atleast they tick the right amount of times (atleast rake).
Not sure if the energy-regen is accurate.
SCT looks horrible, and for some reason it wont show some melee-crits.
simplifieddps
theres probably more bugs with it that i havent found yet, but i threw it together in a couple of hours so dont expect to much from it.
and the code: http://d9550218.u125.surftown.se/summlan/FERALDPS.rar
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Excellent, thanks a lot for this.
I could hover around 3800 dps after a while. I highly doubt that I would be able to watch all cooldowns and pay attention to the fight simulatenously, not to mention that we will have an additional CDs to watch: Berserk and refreshing Faerie Fire...
I really like nontrivial dps that would need a bit of skill but I fear this is too much for me.
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10/09/08, 2:13 PM
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#2859
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Eldre'Thalas
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Originally Posted by tlbj6142
Those represent TPS per talent point or do they assume max ranking??? Has someone published a ranking of talents from a defensive perspective (mitigation, avoidance, survivability)?
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I haven't seen anything else posted, I guess because most assume certain items as "core" Bear talents (Thick Hide, Natural Reaction, SotF, etc). But I do see your point, breaking the other aspects down would be helpful for a Cat spec or hybrid spec in chosing a few Bear talents.
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10/09/08, 2:42 PM
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#2860
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Soultrigger
I understand that so far we are comparing skills and when to use them, but can you please try to see if this rotation would be ideal or a dps loss, the math behind it is just that all the rotation has to support itself. (before rake buffs, rakes were shreds, and rip lasted enough for FB to get the 50% crit bonus). All I did is to make sure in every situation the buffs were up, rake will fall for 1 or 2 seconds at most (because of energy regen), the only issues are two: 1) One shred will always go off without the SR up (btw, I am thinking this rotation with 5 point SR, 5 point Rip, 5 point FB), and 2) the other is that between the last rake in the rotation and the first one, there will be a 10 seconds without rake debuff, because we need to allow the energy to recharge to restart the rotation. No idea if it is any dps gain actually, because I am not that math guy. Oh, another detail, for every 3 skills that generate combo points, I am counting 2 crits for 5 points, or hoping that the OoC procs make up for non crits streaks. Also I am considering mangle and rip glyphs, and 2 pieces T7.
(wait for 74 energy when it is the second time you start the rotation, btw 3.9s means 3.9 seconds to reflect energy regen time)
Mangle (3.9s)+Rake (3.5s)+Shred(4,2s)+Savage Roar(2.5s)
(rake will drop for 1.2 secs)
+Rake(3.5s)+Shred(4.2s)+Tiger“s Fury(-6.0s)+Mangle(3.9s)+Rip(3.0s)
(On this part, wait for 9 energy to use TF, simply because you will save the energy regen time to do double rip+mangle to avoid ticks without mangle debuff, btw you are renewing MG at 17.9s, just 0.1 secs before it expires)
+Rake(3.5s)+Shred(4.2s)+Shred(4.2s)+Ferocious Bite(3.5s)
(the rake on this rotation, because of TF, will be at 8.6 sec, so you might want to let the dot tick off before reapplying it. When this rake finishes, it will take about 10 second before you can have a rake up again, this is because of the energy cost of ferocious bite, mangle and rake).
This is the best I could come up with as a rotation to use the new buffed feral skills, but maybe it is not the best dps rotation, but I felt like presenting it for evaluation.
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Hi Soultrigger,
I wrote the strategy code for your rotation, as follows:

int cycle = 1;
boolean finish = false;
int filler = -1;
public Action mangle() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= status.getMangleCost()) {
filler = status.getComboPoints();
return Action.MANGLE;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action rake() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= status.getRakeCost()) {
filler = status.getComboPoints();
return Action.RAKE;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action shred() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= status.getShredCost()) {
filler = status.getComboPoints();
return Action.SHRED;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action roar() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= 25) {
finish = true;
return Action.ROAR;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action rip() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= 30) {
finish = true;
return Action.RIP;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action bite() {
if (status.getEnergy() >= 35) {
finish = true;
return Action.BITE;
}
else
return Action.NONE;
}
public Action getAction() {
// Determine if previous action was successful
if (finish) {
finish = false;
if (status.getComboPoints() == 0)
cycle ++;
}
if (filler >= 0) {
filler = -1;
if (status.getComboPoints() >= filler)
cycle ++;
}
if (cycle > 13)
cycle = 1;
switch (cycle) {
case 1:
return mangle();
case 2:
return rake();
case 3:
return shred();
case 4:
return roar();
case 5:
return rake();
case 6:
return shred();
case 7:
if (status.getFuryCooldown() == 0) {
cycle ++;
return Action.FURY;
}
else return Action.NONE;
case 8:
return mangle();
case 9:
return rip();
case 10:
return rake();
case 11:
return shred();
case 12:
return shred();
case 13:
return bite();
}
return Action.NONE;
}
Using my default stats, I'm getting 2059 dps from your rotation compared to 2275 dps from the baseline strategy, unfortunately. I looked through the log and the rotation is often messed up waiting for the Tiger's Fury timer depending on the OoC proc randomness.
Because of this, I think it is obvious that fixed rotations simply do not work anymore in 3.0. You will need to adapt on the fly depending on crits and OoC procs.
_____
Wowcatsim - Cat DPS Simulator for 3.0
Last edited by tangedyn : 10/09/08 at 2:58 PM.
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10/09/08, 3:00 PM
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#2861
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Playing with that simulator I can get roughly 4.2-4.3k if I use Mangle and Rake as my combo generating move (basically ignoring shred) and do a 5SR/5Rip/5FB rotation
Basically shows that for me although Mangle is not as much DPE as RnT Shred, it is easier to maintain a healthy damage cycle since it builds up CP faster, which makes the cycle less susceptible to bad crits on specials for PF
Of course I may just need more practice before I can incorporate shred into the rotation.
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10/09/08, 3:02 PM
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#2862
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Glass Joe
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It looks like feral dps is going to be involved enough to justify the use of something like DiscoDice (rogue) or DisqoDice (shaman). Is that fair, or am I over-estimating the number of things we'll want to easily keep an eye on?
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10/09/08, 3:02 PM
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#2863
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Mordant
Played on your flash a little bit and have to say, that keeping up SR, Mangle and Rake up all the time, while using TF every cooldown (and not wasting energy with it) is really difficult while running SR/Rip/FB rotation.
About flash itself: Any chance to add "Clearcasting!" message to your "SCT" and some TF cooldown timer?
Max possible DPS here should be around 5k, right? I guess, I have to practise more, as I can't break 4k  .
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Max dps should atleast be close to 5k, i removed the retribution aura and havent added the extra dmg during TF, other than that its the same as nightcrawler.
Im fixing the SCT since that code is terrible. So clearcasting and TF counter is coming. And Start/stop buttons etc.
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10/09/08, 3:07 PM
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#2864
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Gul'dan (EU)
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First off, that simulator is really nice. I honestly didn't expect the cycle to be that hard to keep up, it's really challenging.
One thing though - do you think you could implement that you can push the buttons with well your buttons on the keyboard instead of having to click them ?
Edit: Nevermind i just discovered how to do it.
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10/09/08, 3:08 PM
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#2865
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Piston Honda
Human Warrior
Eldre'Thalas
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Originally Posted by tlbj6142
Those represent TPS per talent point or do they assume max ranking??? Has someone published a ranking of talents from a defensive perspective (mitigation, avoidance, survivability)?
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Those values are per talent point, yes. The post is probably also using the old Protector of the Pack, which had a flat AP increase rather than the current percentage bonus.
I haven't seen any ranking listed for defensive stats either. As Garanthir said, I suspect that most people assume that any tanking build will be taking them all. More importantly, those talents are much harder to rank in a general sense. For example, while Protector of the Pack mitigates the same amount of damage regardless of gear level, Natural Reaction's benefit goes up greatly as your base avoidance increases.
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