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Old 05/27/08, 5:17 PM   #16
Wander
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Astral View Post
Would a non-feral hybrid really dig 43 points into Feral, though?
No, and that's exactly my point; Thick Hide for non-Ferals, Reinforced Hide for Ferals. Reread what I wrote; the Hybrids would take the weaker higher talent, and the Deep Ferals would redistribute Thick Hide points into Primal Precision and Primal Tenacity, picking up their +10% Armor contribution lower in the tree.

Originally Posted by Astral View Post
I think the point is to take both Thick Hide/Reinforced Hide for +20% armor (x6 as opposed to x5.5) for those serious about tanking (or just lacking the gear). Right now at 70, the armor cap vs lvl 73 (bosses) is 35,880. Against a lvl 83 (boss) it'll 49,904! You'll need over 9000 armor to reach that with the current 550% from Thick Hide. Remember that 10% is worth another 50% to a Dire Bear. This'll turn a 1000 armor chest from 5500 armor to 6000. It's even allow us to take AGI-heavy rogue gear more often once we've capped.
Given how cheap bonus (Green) armor points are, I don't think that any Druid will have to worry about getting an additional 9,000 armor over ten levels, unless they change the sort of gear Druids tank in from AR-heavy itemized pieces to simple high-AGI Rogue pieces; of course, they'll probably have to figure out a way to do that *and* keep the Bear's absurdly high STA intact as well somehow - the return of the 25% Health Bonus, perhaps?

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Old 05/27/08, 6:01 PM   #17
Maeltne
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Suramar
It all depends on how well we trust blizzard to itemize our gear. TBC >>> better than LOL-vanilla - but many items are still so poorly itemized that I cry myself to sleep sometimes.

If I could assign the points on my gear, I'd be seriously OP.

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Old 05/27/08, 6:04 PM   #18
Astral
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Aggramar
Except that raid gear is meant to count for higher levels...the levels stop at the cap, but with higher raids, item lvl just keeps going up...such that T3 was "good til 67", T6 will most likely last til at least 75...I think they've also stated gear will scale slower in WoTLK and not be as crazy as TBC...so don't expect to get epic-quality greens at 72

Just because someone can cap now, doesn't mean those who come later, and won't get so much access to T4-6 content (how much of it will die like the others once the expansion hits?) will have such luxury...

Besides, you don't give 2 +10% armor talents and itemize for one...that'd be stupid...

You shouldn't think in a 71-80 bubble about new talents...tier 8 is lvl 60+

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Old 05/27/08, 6:08 PM   #19
Lolaan
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shadow Council
This 49k armor cap assumes that they don't inflate armor again like they did in the burning crusade transition. Remember, the formula changes post 60. It may very well change post 70 and we'll be required to have more like 70k armor to cap out. Hard to know for sure at this point.

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Old 05/27/08, 6:38 PM   #20
North101
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Zenedar (EU)
My friend has a private WotLK server and I noticed that Frenzied Regen is 0.3% of max health per rage on it (its been reported as 0.1% somewhere else) which is better than I expected it to be (0.1% was abit on the low side considering it uses all of our rage).

Berserk is also 2 abilities, one for Cat Form (5min cooldown) and one for Bear Form (2min cooldown) with the Bear Form version increasing health by 30% and not 20%. I'm sort of hoping that they will combine the 2 and add a spell cost reduction for caster form as I suspect that if you shiftout you loose the buff.

Tigers Fury costs no energy and has a 30sec cooldown which makes it pretty nice now as it adds abit of burst and I can defintly see myself using it everytime its off cooldown

Survival of the Fittest now gives you double what it does now meaning we don't need to use defence or resilience for PVE gear. I suspect they changed it because of all the stat juggling we had to do to stay crit immune. Though this does mean we can tank in Cat gear should the tank die, we may not have as much health (Berserk would help here) or armor but we'll have more dodge than in normal tanking gear and we should at least be able to survive till the tank gets combat rezzed and buffed (assuming it can be taunted).

Feral Charge (Cat)
10 Energy............8-25yd range
0.75 sec cast.....30sec cooldown
Requires Cat Form
Causes you to leap behind an enemy, dazing them for 3 sec.
Ferocious Bite's extra damage now scales with Attack Power (it was showing at 11 dmg per energy at 4768 Attack Power with Rank 6 with the lowest being 3.5 dmg per energy at 0 Attack Power which would give about 0.0015 - 0.0157 additional dmg per attack power per energy).

Omen of Clarity is passive.

Note: I'm pretty sure tooltip data is taken from the actual WoW client so while it may not remain this way, it should be the same as whats in the current Alpha.

Last edited by North101 : 05/27/08 at 10:01 PM.

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Old 05/27/08, 9:26 PM   #21
Xelopheris
Piston Honda
 
Xelopheris's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Diameter View Post
Xelopheris, do you no longer think omen of clarity will be useful to ferals at level 80 or did you just forget to include it in your talents? I would think the threat/dps boost of clearcasting would definitely be worth the one talent point it takes out of the feral combat tree.
Erm, I completely missed it to be honest. Take a point out of feral aggression for it.

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Old 05/27/08, 11:32 PM   #22
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by North101 View Post
Berserk is also 2 abilities, one for Cat Form (5min cooldown) and one for Bear Form (2min cooldown) with the Bear Form version increasing health by 30% and not 20%. I'm sort of hoping that they will combine the 2 and add a spell cost reduction for caster form as I suspect that if you shiftout you loose the buff.

Ferocious Bite's extra damage now scales with Attack Power (it was showing at 11 dmg per energy at 4768 Attack Power with Rank 6 with the lowest being 3.5 dmg per energy at 0 Attack Power which would give about 0.0015 - 0.0157 additional dmg per attack power per energy).
5 min cooldown for Cat form makes sense (same as adrenaline rush). But 2 min cooldown on last stand? That seems somewhat unbalanced. As for FB 11 DPE is still far too low for you to want to actually use more than 35 energy for your bites.

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Old 05/27/08, 11:51 PM   #23
Feorthas
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Valerian View Post
But 2 min cooldown on last stand? That seems somewhat unbalanced.
Wasn't Warrior last stand getting it's cooldown reduced to something around 2 or 3 minutes? Even if the warrior version is at 5-minutes, pre-talents, I don't think that having the druid version be at 2 is horribly unbalancing, given that it's the 51 point talent and whatnot.

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Old 05/28/08, 12:11 AM   #24
North101
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Valerian View Post
As for FB 11 DPE is still far too low for you to want to actually use more than 35 energy for your bites.
This is an extra 1100 damage with 100 energy with the best gear (though unbuffed) excluding another 15% with Feral Aggression, another 10% with Naturalist and another 10% with Predatory Instincts if it crits. This would be an additional 3061 damage if it crits (although this is obviously assuming the best case senario). IMO I don't think they could buff it more than that otherwise it would be far too much burst.

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Old 05/28/08, 12:25 AM   #25
Meddler
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock
Bear in mind you will be giving up 65 energy worth of other attacks though (over an additional GCD admittedly) for that burst - 3000 damage for 65 energy on a crit still compares fairly poorly to simply shredding then biting, nice to see an improvement though particularly when solo or otherwise unable to shred.

On the subject of Beserk will be interesting to see if the Bear and Cat versions share a cooldown or not, particularly when OTing or PVPing.

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Old 05/28/08, 2:12 AM   #26
Mijae
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by North101 View Post
This is an extra 1100 damage with 100 energy with the best gear (though unbuffed) excluding another 15% with Feral Aggression, another 10% with Naturalist and another 10% with Predatory Instincts if it crits. This would be an additional 3061 damage if it crits (although this is obviously assuming the best case senario). IMO I don't think they could buff it more than that otherwise it would be far too much burst.
It only affects the extra energy. So it's 786 extra damage (65*11*1.1) not 1100, and 1620 on crit (1863 with talent). I don't even know where you pulled that 3k+ number from. I would much rather have an even larger burst over 1-2 seconds more using Shred or even Mangle. It's just not worth the energy.

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Old 05/28/08, 3:25 AM   #27
Nathariel
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackrock
Could still be 100 on a OoC proc, not that I would recommend spending energy in that way.

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Old 05/28/08, 4:56 AM   #28
Prinsesa
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Echo Isles
It wasn't mentioned in the OP, but IIRC, Ferocious Bite's energy to damage conversion will scale with AP.

As well, Tiger's Fury will no longer cost any energy, but will have a cooldown instead (I'm not sure how long though).

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

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Old 05/28/08, 5:09 AM   #29
Rannasha
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post
It wasn't mentioned in the OP, but IIRC, Ferocious Bite's energy to damage conversion will scale with AP.

As well, Tiger's Fury will no longer cost any energy, but will have a cooldown instead (I'm not sure how long though).
Added. Both those changes are long overdue. TF has been a "why even put it on your bar?" ability for as long as i can remember and OoC is the only clearcasting-talent that can be dispelled.

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Old 05/28/08, 6:46 AM   #30
North101
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Mijae View Post
It only affects the extra energy. So it's 786 extra damage (65*11*1.1) not 1100, and 1620 on crit (1863 with talent). I don't even know where you pulled that 3k+ number from. I would much rather have an even larger burst over 1-2 seconds more using Shred or even Mangle. It's just not worth the energy.
I know it only effects extra energy, I was simply assuming the best conditions for it and I never said it would be better than using a shred or mangle before it either. I was simply suggesting that in a single move that imo it would be too much burst if they increased it any more. I see our Feriocous Bite as a quick way to either burn all your energy before a shift or a PVP finisher so while you could use a shred or mangle before it then there is a chance in the global cooldown that they could out range you or get healed.

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