Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 21

coredumperror · 07/25/08, 7:19 PM

Regarding Haste and its effect on melee GCD, it's been shown on the Hunter forums that the new Haste stat, which effects both physical haste and spell haste, has an effect on GCD for non-physical abilities, but no effect for physical ones. Hunters' traps get a reduced GCD, for instance, but not their shots.

On another note: what's the deal with Feral Charge in Cat form? I've seen contradictory info on it. The videos that were posted on this thread show that "Feral Charge (Cat)" has been implemented as a "shadowstep-like" ability, rather than a charging spell interrupt like it is not for Bear Form. However, much of the info on various fansites shows that the "Feral Charge" (with no form specifier) ability is usable in Cat form in addition to Bear Form). Is Feral Charge (Cat) different from Feral Charge the talent?

tlbj6142 · 07/25/08, 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

Is Feral Charge (Cat) different from Feral Charge the talent?

One talent two different behaviors depending on form.

Ja7us · 07/25/08, 9:14 PM

1) Do we know yet if feral charge (cat) and feral charge (bear) share cooldowns? I assume so, but it would be nice to know conclusively.

2) Can feral charge (cat) be used without breaking stealth?

Foofer · 07/25/08, 9:20 PM

Originally Posted by chiefwigum

Thought this was pretty cool, feral charge in cat form video.
YouTube - WoTLK beta - Feral Charge (Cat) Mark II

I was under the impression that Feral Charge (cat) would work the same way as bear, in that it needed an actual path to perform the charge. Do we know yet if this is bugged or intended to work like this?

Murwen · 07/25/08, 9:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ja7us

1) Do we know yet if feral charge (cat) and feral charge (bear) share cooldowns? I assume so, but it would be nice to know conclusively.

2) Can feral charge (cat) be used without breaking stealth?

Bear Charge has a 15 second cooldown, Cat one 30 seconds. Using either activates a 15 s cooldown on the other.

It's usable in stealth without breaking it, it doesnt even turn on auto attack.

Snarley · 07/25/08, 10:22 PM

The one thing I didn’t see in the video was the daze affect that is supposed to happen. Maybe the guy had spell graphics turned down but hopefully that is still in.

It seems like a really "cool" ability, being able to jump through the air like that will be fun.

The other thing that i noticed was that when he jumped he ended up facing AWAY from his target because he landed the same way he jumped. Not that big of a deal but its definitely not any mechanic that is currently in the game.. Warrior charge instantly puts you on the target with a stun, shadow step "Blinks" you behind someone, and blink is a predetermined distance in which you are facing.

The way it seems to be implemented in the video you have to have some finesse to make sure you are landing facing your target. Worst case it’s just another reason to be happy about moving with the mouse instead of a keyboard

Murwen · 07/25/08, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Snarley

The one thing I didn’t see in the video was the daze affect that is supposed to happen. Maybe the guy had spell graphics turned down but hopefully that is still in.

It seems like a really "cool" ability, being able to jump through the air like that will be fun.

The other thing that i noticed was that when he jumped he ended up facing AWAY from his target because he landed the same way he jumped. Not that big of a deal but its definitely not any mechanic that is currently in the game.. Warrior charge instantly puts you on the target with a stun, shadow step "Blinks" you behind someone, and blink is a predetermined distance in which you are facing.

The way it seems to be implemented in the video you have to have some finesse to make sure you are landing facing your target. Worst case it’s just another reason to be happy about moving with the mouse instead of a keyboard

I'm the one who made the clip and the daze is there, it just doesnt have any graphical effect yet. And yeah, you always land behind the back of your target still facing the way you were when you started leaping forward.

Snarley · 07/25/08, 11:18 PM

Well TY for the clip

and i envy you for getting to play with the new toys before the rest of us.

NM, Question was answered in your original post with video. You need to have LOS on your target in order to perform the charge

tenshirou · 07/26/08, 1:18 AM

Well, I guess the only way to be certain if there has been a decrease in overall dps would be to have someone in the beta actually see what percentage of damage they are doing compared to other classes with similar gear progression.

• Astrylian · 07/26/08, 2:59 AM

What's this? Someone posting actual data, not just QQing? Couldn't be! Only difference in talents is 3% more stats from SotF:

			Beta				Live	
		Bear Mitigation	Cat DPS	Naked	Bear Mitigation	Cat DPS	Naked
Strength	452		415	77	439		403	75
Agility		568		702	79	552		682	77
Stamina C	922		646	86	896		628	84
Stamina B	1384		970	139	1344		943	126
Intellect	333		308	152	324		300	148
Spirit		150		150	140	146		146	136
Armor C		8017		5672	158	7985		5632	154
Armor B		35538		22744	158	35506		22704	154
Damage C	299-324		358-383	107-132	227-302		335-360	87-112
Damage B	589-651		697-758	208-270	545-607		654-715	207-269
Haste%		0		1.59	0	0		1.59	0
Power C		3202		3952	748	2912		3660	498
Power B		2389		2937	449	2165		2715	445
Crit%		27.68		33.20	15.45	34.04		41.42	15.04
Dodge%		46.48		45.87	13.91	48.27		49.50	8.36

Those are 3 different sets of gear, compared between beta and live. Stats with "B" are in bear form, stats with "C" are in cat form.

If nobody else does, I'll analyze that when I have a chance.

• Falk · 07/26/08, 4:59 AM

That's pretty odd that dodge didn't drop all that much. What's the ratio you're seeing? (@70, of course)

• Astrylian · 07/26/08, 5:16 AM

Notice *why* dodge didn't drop... Check out my Dodge% while naked: almost 14%, instead of 8.4% on live. A tiny bit of that difference can be explained by SotF, but not alot. We're looking at just a 5% base boost to dodge.

tenshirou · 07/26/08, 5:28 AM

I have to ask this, were your live server stats copied while in caster form? I ask because you logged out of the live server naked and in cat form. You have 12.36 dodge. Which with the 4% dodge you get in shifted form matches your listed numbers. It also explains the oddity of having 50% more ap in the beta vs live. That aside, there does seem a slight increase in base dodge. 1% would fit closely to the base amount rogues get over us.

• Astrylian · 07/26/08, 5:33 AM

All of those are in feral forms. "C" is Cat, "B" is Bear, others it doesn't matter. (Yes, 8.36% dodge on live naked IS in cat/bear). Armory has a bug that it applies the cat/bear bonuses twice.

• Falk · 07/26/08, 5:36 AM

Ewps, guess I should have noticed that right away. Kings and GoA (and consumables, and gear upgrades) won't be as much of an avoidance gain anymore. Which is good. Pity about the crit rates though.. being able to (almost assuredly) bust through capped resilience for a 5pt rip with a single energy bar was awesome. :P

tenshirou · 07/26/08, 5:39 AM

That is interesting, both about the bug and the increase to base ap and dodge.

Druid-tankin · 07/26/08, 12:34 PM

I dont know if they added this in the new expansion , but what i am really missing with current bear form is a ability to break CC (from a range) while tanking. Blizzard should maybe look into implanting a spell that can do this.

Garanthir · 07/26/08, 1:36 PM

Do you guys think being able to gain 4% crit through talents (2/2 Master Shapeshifter) also led to us losing a bit of base crit?

joe_in_hell · 07/26/08, 2:24 PM

Shift out and use Moonfire?

wuffles · 07/26/08, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by joe_in_hell

Shift out and use Moonfire?

"ability to break CC (from a range) while tanking"

meaning, while a mob is beating on you, without setting yourself up to be gibbed by being in caster for a GCD. I'm not sure its something we need, but it wasn't that hard to figure out what he was asking.

edit: One thing thats a little confusing for me about the feral charge (cat) ability...it doesn't break stealth but still dazes the target on cast? That could be fun simply to annoy people with if that's indeed the case.

Murwen · 07/26/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by wuffles

edit: One thing thats a little confusing for me about the feral charge (cat) ability...it doesn't break stealth but still dazes the target on cast? That could be fun simply to annoy people with if that's indeed the case.

Yep, it still dazes if you do it while stealthed

joe_in_hell · 07/26/08, 5:53 PM

Well, but if you have already a load of mobs hitting you - why would you want to break the CC on another mob? And if you really want to, why can't you move towards him?
I see this as a very sitautional problem.

Apaine · 07/26/08, 8:04 PM

Originally Posted by wuffles

"ability to break CC (from a range) while tanking"

meaning, while a mob is beating on you, without setting yourself up to be gibbed by being in caster for a GCD. I'm not sure its something we need, but it wasn't that hard to figure out what he was asking.

edit: One thing thats a little confusing for me about the feral charge (cat) ability...it doesn't break stealth but still dazes the target on cast? That could be fun simply to annoy people with if that's indeed the case.

Yes, but much less annoying than rogue sap and distract. I mean it does have 30 sec cooldown.

Also let me answer the question for the ability to break CC. We already have that. No need for new ability. A simple macro allows you to instantly unshift and shift back to bear form. All is done client side, so there is no server lag.. and most important - you are not in caster form at any time (so can't be instagibbed).

Reason being is - unshifting to humanoid takes no GCD. So shifting right back is possibile and can be macroed in same cast. I'm not at my WoW computer, or I'd just post up the macro... but a simple visit to the appropriate feral tanking macro forum should set you up.

joe_in_hell - I think he meant breaking a CC on himself while tanking.... not break CC on another mob while tanking... former makes sense.. latter doesn't.

Druidiful · 07/26/08, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Apaine

Yes, but much less annoying than rogue sap and distract. I mean it does have 30 sec cooldown.

Also let me answer the question for the ability to break CC. We already have that. No need for new ability. A simple macro allows you to instantly unshift and shift back to bear form. All is done client side, so there is no server lag.. and most important - you are not in caster form at any time (so can't be instagibbed).

Reason being is - unshifting to humanoid takes no GCD. So shifting right back is possibile and can be macroed in same cast. I'm not at my WoW computer, or I'd just post up the macro... but a simple visit to the appropriate feral tanking macro forum should set you up.

joe_in_hell - I think he meant breaking a CC on himself while tanking.... not break CC on another mob while tanking... former makes sense.. latter doesn't.

Although shifting out of bear form does not cost a GCD, using something like moonfire does so you are stranded in caster form for 1.5 and while this is happening you lose all of your rage which forces the dps to wait a little longer than if we could break cc in bear form.

Edit to Apaine below: The only problem with feral charge is if the next group of mobs are too close and when you get into melee range they also get pulled or if the mob you are attacking fears and then you run into the next group of mobs which most likely would not have happened if you could have stayed at range.

Apaine · 07/26/08, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by Druidiful

Although shifting out of bear form does not cost a GCD, using something like moonfire does so you are stranded in caster form for 1.5 and while this is happening you lose all of your rage which forces the dps to wait a little longer than if we could break cc in bear form.

In that case Joe_in_hell was right... why would you want to cast moonfire while tanking :P
If you're tanking and want to break something further away, a feral charge is sufficient typically. At least that's what I am using...