Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 223

halmmar · 10/28/08, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Drashian

On the "more powerful" bug, has anyone tested if it's because of temporary AP buffs?

I did, and I could overwrite it (alone in raid).

cana · 10/28/08, 5:47 PM

I just did some tests on the "more powerful" bug with FFF.
Obviously, if a Moonkin with imp. FF sets their FF, we can't overwrite it. That has been the case since imp. FF exists, we all know it.
As halmmar stated in the post above, AP has nothing to do with it, I tested onUse trinkets as well as buffs (agi/str Totem, Unleashed Rage, MotW), I could always overwrite my own FF.

Now to the part where Blizzard messed it up:
Since 3.0, a Shadowpriest's "Misery" debuff increases SpellHitChanceTaken by 3%, the same way imp. FF does.
That is where the "more powerful spell active" error comes from, but interesting enough, this is what I noticed while testing:

- If your FFF is up BEFORE Misery lands on the mob, you CAN'T OVERWRITE FFF.
- If you apply FFF to a mob AFTER Misery is already up, you CAN OVERWRITE it.

Edit: Oh, would be cool if anyone could post this as a bug report in the US Forums. Since I have an EU-Account I can't do it myself, and EU-Forums proved to be as effective for bug reports as writing it to a piece of paper and flushing it down the toilet ;/

kalbear · 10/28/08, 7:45 PM

Posted here, cana. Thanks for the testing.

tlbj6142 · 10/28/08, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

Posted here, cana. Thanks for the testing.

Looks like someone needs to update their FAQ with this information.

nightcrowler · 10/29/08, 3:03 AM

I'm looking into modify my simulation taking into account that FFF is based on spell crit. I'm under the impression that the FFF is due to a self interference because sometimes I get the error also being on myself. I'm thinking that you can't refresh it if it crit, but I need to test it.

As for aggro, I don't have a single piece of T6 so no bonus on swipe, but yesterday I've tanked all BT till Illidari Council and never had aggro problem, obviosly I've tanked all with dps gear on trashes. I also had our top dps paladin spam consacration and his other aoe ability. What I really want to say is: when we "really" lose aggro?
If I see my mob turning around to the ret pally, it's a problem? No, taunt it back.
If I miss some mob at the beginning it's a problem? No, Challenging Roar.
Also you usually have other tanks with you, but with the CD lowered on our taunting ability, the greater range and so on, I never had a single time where a mob killed someone because I lose aggro and that it's enough for me.

david0925 · 10/29/08, 7:15 AM

I just want to emphasize on what nightcrowler said.

Unless your RL wants to know how much threat you can absolutely put out for some reason, having sufficient aggro over other DPS so they are never in danger of pulling aggro is enough. I ended up doing a lot of swipe spamming and refreshing lacerate and FFF on just expiring because Swipe does more damage despite the lower TPS, and damage increase (however insignificant it can be) will shorten boss fights, which will contribute to raid success.

Similar cases with gemming, if your threat is fine you should not try to push for bigger "epeen" threat numbers: having 50k or 50 million threat lead lead up to the same result, so focus on not dying is a lot more important.

Boevis · 10/29/08, 7:51 AM

While I'm prone to agree that we don't have aggro issues, I wish to emphasize something david just said.

Threat is less of an issue, survivability is based more on spec and gear than skill (especially for ferals), what we are most likely to be judged on is Damage output. If one tank is doing 2k and the other does 1750, then it's pretty obvious who is tanking, assuming all buffs/debuffs are available elsewhere and there's no fight mechanics that make one superior to others (Fear will not be an important mechanic in BC - blizzard)

cana · 10/29/08, 9:57 AM

I spent some time at the dummies, trying to reproduce self-interference with FFF by adjusting several stats by changing weapons.
I always started out of combat, with a non-debuffed dummie, stats I tested were Spellpower, Hit, Crit, AP, ArP.
Taking into concideration that FFF can't be reapplied if misery is up before FFF and nightcrowlers assumption concerning crits, I tested everything with a starting FFF-crit and non-crit, for the latter, reapplying FFF until 1 after I crit again.
Every stat was tested vs. every other, both directions (Spellpower vs. AP, AP vs. Spellpower, etc.).

There was no single occurance of that "more powerful" error in 45 minutes of testing.

• moz · 10/29/08, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Daboran

Don't forget that damage has been buffed considerably too. It is possible for some classes to pull aggro - admittedly it's a lot harder than before but nonetheless possbile.

Not a chance on a single target mob, unless you're AFK or people start hitting it before you hit it. Threat is pretty much a non-issue (I'm speaking in the context of Sunwell geared tanks/DPS mainly, but it applies in general). Actually, on small packs it's not an issue either unless you just tunnel vision one mob the whole time. Having Berserk to open up a big lead on boss fights or manage bigger pulls is very nice. Fights where you are going second and need to catch up (Bloodboil, Twins etc.) is trivial now with Berserk. Pretty happy with the utility it provides. As for that CC-breaking Maul glyph? Love it.

Rorgg · 10/29/08, 12:53 PM

The only class I've seen that even hinted at a chance of pulling aggro are the frickin' Arms Warriors. Arms got a gigantic PvE buff with 3.0 that allows them to fire off their Overpowers and Executes a lot more often, in addition to their Mortal Strikes. A crit Execute early enough (say, right about when they're hitting their rage cap thanks to critting a MS or Overpower) can put up a pretty silly burst DPS amount.

I've got a 70 Arms Warrior with mostly greens and no epics except for the axesmith crafted one, and he's doing stupid DPS in groups compared to guys I raid with.

♦ Regen · 10/29/08, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rorgg

The only class I've seen that even hinted at a chance of pulling aggro are the frickin' Arms Warriors. Arms got a gigantic PvE buff with 3.0 that allows them to fire off their Overpowers and Executes a lot more often, in addition to their Mortal Strikes. A crit Execute early enough (say, right about when they're hitting their rage cap thanks to critting a MS or Overpower) can put up a pretty silly burst DPS amount.

Unless Arms warriors do more threat than dual glaives warriors, rogues, and legendary hunters on a demon I highly doubt they are the exception.

Meridia · 10/30/08, 5:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rorgg

The only class I've seen that even hinted at a chance of pulling aggro are the frickin' Arms Warriors. Arms got a gigantic PvE buff with 3.0 that allows them to fire off their Overpowers and Executes a lot more often, in addition to their Mortal Strikes. A crit Execute early enough (say, right about when they're hitting their rage cap thanks to critting a MS or Overpower) can put up a pretty silly burst DPS amount.

I've got a 70 Arms Warrior with mostly greens and no epics except for the axesmith crafted one, and he's doing stupid DPS in groups compared to guys I raid with.

I can actually attest to that, but only for AoE packs. I have an Arms warrior and have pulled aggro a few times in heroics vs very capable tanks. Trinket, Recklessness, Sweeping Strikes, Bladestorm is absolutely ridiculous AoE damage and if done too early will definitely pull.

sadistic · 10/30/08, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rorgg

The only class I've seen that even hinted at a chance of pulling aggro are the frickin' Arms Warriors. Arms got a gigantic PvE buff with 3.0 that allows them to fire off their Overpowers and Executes a lot more often, in addition to their Mortal Strikes. A crit Execute early enough (say, right about when they're hitting their rage cap thanks to critting a MS or Overpower) can put up a pretty silly burst DPS amount.

I've got a 70 Arms Warrior with mostly greens and no epics except for the axesmith crafted one, and he's doing stupid DPS in groups compared to guys I raid with.

a) The arms warrs that do too much dps atm (on bosses) is dw/arms (esp with glaives) due to rolling deepwounds (read 4k-5k dps on brutallus for instance) And even then they don't pull aggro.

b) As far as I know you don't get rage from (critting) special attacks. Thus making them incapable of doing a crit execute too early (will need one swing-cycle at absolute bare minimum). Which means tank has a short while to get some threat.

Now, for the reck-ss-bladestorm bomb, I will ofc not argue, but that would be the warriors own damn fault.

Grubsnik · 10/30/08, 6:11 AM

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Ghostcrawler - Any news?

Quote:
6. Feral Itemization issue 2: Not enough "Armor" trinkets in game making them invaluable to druids, basically once you have these trinkets you will not grab anything else unless you reach armor cap. - Can more armor trinkets be added, with different usage stats?

My suspicion is you are still over-valuing armor compared to other defensive stats. I realize you don't want block or parry but that doesn't mean it's armor or nothing.

Hmm, seems blizzard, or at least GC doesn't think that the armor trinkets and other jewelry is a must-have for druids.

The armor formula for "longer life" vs. a 83 boss is basically "armor increase/16635.5 * 100 = increase in time to live(TTL) in %" (Formulas

amage reduction - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft)
Ignoring procs on the armor trinkets we get:
For defenders code we get 850 * 1.1 * 4.7 = 4394.5 => 4394.5/16635.5 ~ +26.4% TTL.
For offering of sacrifice we get: 550 * 1.1 * 4.7 => 17% TTL.

Since DR has been instituted for dodge, that means we can roughly assume than any increase in raw dodge% yields the same increase in TTL.

Other "tanking" trinkets in WotLK includes:
Darkmoon Card: Greatness gives ~4.5% dodge from agi.
Valor Medal of the First War gives ~3.2% dodge, but is controllable.
Essence of Gossamer gives +111 stam and a 140 damage shield for 10 secs on a 2% proc chance.

So even ignoring the fact that both armor trinkets have better on use, than most of these trinkets, they are still ahead by a landslide.

Anyone able to raise GC on the Beta boards and disabuse him of his silly notion about the value of armor?

PrayForDeath · 10/30/08, 8:13 AM

Since healing power and spell power are now unified, does Nurturing Instinct benefit our damage spells now as well as heals? I was thinking about Hurricane as feral since cats don't have any AoE.