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Old 07/21/08, 1:32 PM   #346
coredumperror
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
<SiN>
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by angi View Post
For me this item is crap . No Stamina on a tanking staff is not that great and it has no avoidance. With the talent and gems reaching expertise cap should be no problem.
Unless bosses have a higher parry and/or dodge change in Wrath, you're probably right. But we have no idea what the expertise cap is going to be at lvl 80, so I wouldn't make any sweeping assumptions just yet.

As for Savage Roar... wow. I can't wait to put that to use.... damn!

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Old 07/21/08, 1:37 PM   #347
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Not every druid has been through SSC/Hyjal/SWP. Its a decent hybrid DPS/Tanking weapon for leveling. Sure there be better items, but that doesn't mean you can get your hands on them while leveling.
It's still odd to have a lvl 76 item that is only situationally better than Earthwarden. It reminds me a lot of pillar. Okay, so some druids haven't been through SSC and don't have wildfury. But then they get this and get a weapon with no stam, no avoidance, but armor? How is that helpful to their tanking?

I suspect that this is a bad herald of things to come; druids will be getting their armor from their weapons and getting their stam/avoidance from their other gear.

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Old 07/21/08, 2:03 PM   #348
halmmar
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
<Zen>
Xavius (EU)
Originally Posted by tlbj6142 View Post
FWIW, it is a lvl 76 item. All too often leveling items (rewards, mid-level instance drops, etc.) are of the type "better than nothing". Now if this were a lvl 80 world drop blue (a la Braxxis), I would be worried.
[Braxxis' Staff of Slumber] was an awesome level 64 staff. Not the level 70 rare you'd think it would be, given its stats.

Bloodwood Greatstaff seems pretty good though. Since you'll share armor with rogues, you'll have a hard time getting enough armor for any hard-hitting end-boss (though it's obviously worse for any boss using spells). The staff seems to be a replacement the [Pillar of Ferocity], trading stamina for threat.

Most level 75-76 blues seem to be a bit worse than the current raid drops anyway, so don't give it too much thought.

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Old 07/21/08, 2:16 PM   #349
wuffles
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
I guess we will see 5CP SR 4/5CP Rip, like Rogues do with Rupture and SnD...

Edit: wether or not Rake comes back I don't know, but it could be worth it.
Well for a cycle more similar to a rogue, you would need to be able to maintain 1cp SR and 4/5 rip (to match 1SnD/5rupture), and I'm not sure we'll be able to pull that off without something like combat potency, ruthlessness, imp. SnD(in our case it would be imp. SR), or relentless strikes. At first glance, it seems like we will need atleast a 2cp Savage Roar to keep it up without having to hit everything perfectly and refresh it before it expires. Currently, that doesn't seem too difficult to fit in, but that's counting 2pc t4 procs and a higher crit rate than what I expect we'll see in WotLK. I'm just not sure OoC and Primal Fury will be consistant enough to keep both SR and Rip up for maximum duration.

It will be interesting to see if rake becomes worth it or not - it doesn't look like arms warriors will be taking trauma.

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Old 07/21/08, 2:52 PM   #350
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by wuffles View Post
Well for a cycle more similar to a rogue, you would need to be able to maintain 1cp SR and 4/5 rip (to match 1SnD/5rupture), and I'm not sure we'll be able to pull that off without something like combat potency, ruthlessness, imp. SnD(in our case it would be imp. SR), or relentless strikes. At first glance, it seems like we will need atleast a 2cp Savage Roar to keep it up without having to hit everything perfectly and refresh it before it expires. Currently, that doesn't seem too difficult to fit in, but that's counting 2pc t4 procs and a higher crit rate than what I expect we'll see in WotLK. I'm just not sure OoC and Primal Fury will be consistant enough to keep both SR and Rip up for maximum duration.

It will be interesting to see if rake becomes worth it or not - it doesn't look like arms warriors will be taking trauma.
Remember there's a massive energy boost in the form of KoJ and Tiger's Fury usable every 30 seconds. 60 energy every 30 seconds is nearly double the energy value of the 2T4 procs (neglecting haste effects).

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Old 07/21/08, 3:04 PM   #351
angi
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden (EU)
Originally Posted by wuffles View Post
Well for a cycle more similar to a rogue, you would need to be able to maintain 1cp SR and 4/5 rip (to match 1SnD/5rupture), and I'm not sure we'll be able to pull that off without something like combat potency, ruthlessness, imp. SnD(in our case it would be imp. SR), or relentless strikes. At first glance, it seems like we will need atleast a 2cp Savage Roar to keep it up without having to hit everything perfectly and refresh it before it expires. Currently, that doesn't seem too difficult to fit in, but that's counting 2pc t4 procs and a higher crit rate than what I expect we'll see in WotLK. I'm just not sure OoC and Primal Fury will be consistant enough to keep both SR and Rip up for maximum duration.

It will be interesting to see if rake becomes worth it or not - it doesn't look like arms warriors will be taking trauma.
Tigers Fury gives 120 energy per minute thats around 20 energy more per 12s cycle or approx 1,5 cp more. 2T4 is half of that. Savage Roar is only interesting with 5cp in my eyes, because the uptime is then over around 2 cycles and you can rip or fb in between. It should be perfectly timeable with Berserk cooldown so you get it over the full time of Berserk leading to fat burst dmg.

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Old 07/21/08, 4:09 PM   #352
coredumperror
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Tauren Druid
 
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Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by halmmar View Post
[Braxxis' Staff of Slumber] was an awesome level 64 staff. Not the level 70 rare you'd think it would be, given its stats.
Don't forget that Braxxis and Earthwarden had no stam on them in their original incarnations. The stam was added in 2.1 I believe (maybe earlier?) because they'd been improperly itemized. Seeing as how this is still extremely early beta, and we're seeing sweeping changes left and right, I don't see why we can't expect that weapon to get some more tanking stats by the time it goes live.

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Old 07/21/08, 6:12 PM   #353
Vodrin
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Rogues don't 1pt SnD 5pt Rupture. Thats only doable with 2pc tier4 bonus. In sunwell gear 5s5r or 4s5r is optimal.

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Old 07/21/08, 7:56 PM   #354
Moof
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
I can imagine Savage Roar still being in its very early stages seeing as we never heard anything about it until the Beta (although, I guess that's fairly obvious seeing this is the beta after all). Also there's the fact that no talents so far seem to affect it unlike Nourish which has 2. I'm guessing there will be a modification to an existing talent to allow for increased duration similar to that of Slice and Dice. Savage Fury seems quite fitting to include it, although my only concern would be that it would mean another "must have" talent to spend points on in an already somewhat bloated tree.

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Old 07/21/08, 8:02 PM   #355
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
That is certainly one interesting thing about that talent, as your gear improves and your finishers are avoided less (assisted by the 10 expertise) the talent becomes increasingly less useful. Likely, it will be very useful simply for the 10 expertise.

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Old 07/22/08, 5:04 AM   #356
charriu
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Rip scaling

While browsing through the wotlk spells on wowhead, I noticed, that the Rip tooltip had changed in an interesting way:

Finishing move that causes damage over time.  
Damage increases per combo point and by your attack power:
  1 point: [(138 + 0.01 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  2 points: [(237 + 0.02 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  3 points: [(336 + 0.03 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  4 points: [(435 + 0.04 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  5 points: [(534 + 0.05 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.

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Old 07/22/08, 5:24 AM   #357
Astral
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
That is certainly one interesting thing about that talent, as your gear improves and your finishers are avoided less (assisted by the 10 expertise) the talent becomes increasingly less useful. Likely, it will be very useful simply for the 10 expertise.
Thinking outside of the "end-game box" (where +hit/exp. gear actually exists), it's also a Tier 4 talent. It's available at lvl 25/26, or 27/28 if you choose to get Primal Fury first to get those finishers out faster (yay monkey gear). There is no +hit or expertise at these levels (except for [Expert Goldminer's Helmet]), so that -5% target avoidance is pretty good to level up with (especially if you want to take on mobs higher than your level).

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Old 07/22/08, 9:55 AM   #358
manapaws
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock
It seems the majority have commented on the bloated tree.

However, perhaps this is an intentional move by Blizzard? It serves to allow there to be multiple feasible specs instead of one cookie cutter, and allows for different playstyles and different requirements (ie 10m/25/pvp). IMHO it's a good move - allows for some personality. I'd say on EJ forums within a few months will be mathematically optimised talents / gear stats anyway

Additionally, I remember during the Beta of TBC, Blizzard saying it was trying to redo gear. They were trying to make more options available so that everyone wouldnt look identical like at the end of BWL's era. This is up to each individual's opinion as to whether this was achieved or not - I think it was by adding some stats (Pene/Exp/Haste etc) and with gems allowing further customisation. Perhaps this is Blizzards next step in allowing people to define their own character.

In conclusion it is, of course, very early days and much could change yet.

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Old 07/22/08, 10:02 AM   #359
tlbj6142
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by manapaws View Post
It seems the majority have commented on the bloated tree.

However, perhaps this is an intentional move by Blizzard? It serves to allow there to be multiple feasible specs instead of one cookie cutter, and allows for different playstyles and different requirements (ie 10m/25/pvp).
But the current tree with its "cookie cutter" build means I can be a great bear and a great kitty with one spec (for PvE). Which, IMO, is one of greatest benefits a Feral Druid has over other tanking classes (or melee DPS classes). With the new trees I have to nerf one of the two forms to be great in the other form. Which, destroys the class as a whole. And as such nerfs one of the "benefits" of being a Feral.

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Old 07/22/08, 10:28 AM   #360
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by charriu View Post
While browsing through the wotlk spells on wowhead, I noticed, that the Rip tooltip had changed in an interesting way:

Finishing move that causes damage over time.  
Damage increases per combo point and by your attack power:
  1 point: [(138 + 0.01 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  2 points: [(237 + 0.02 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  3 points: [(336 + 0.03 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  4 points: [(435 + 0.04 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
  5 points: [(534 + 0.05 * AP) * 6] damage over 12 sec.
That would mean that they finally fixed the tooltip after i petitioned it like a thousand times. It also suggests that they fixed the missing AP bonus for the fifth combo point (currently it's 0.04 * AP for both 4 and 5 CP).

With savage roar, mangle and trauma up you will be seeing some sick rip ticks (up to 2k i imagine).

Currently i'm a bit disappointed about rake - with all the good stuff they did to ferals this skill is still pretty lackluster (scales a lot worse than mangle even with mangle and trauma up).

Another thing that has been bothering me is mangle. With imp. mangle, ferocity and 2t6, mangle will only cost you 29 energy. It may even surpass shred in those situations, considering the fast cp-buildup.

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