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Old 11/11/08, 2:14 PM   #3721
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
That's close to the correct order.

The correct order is:

1) Use Rawr*

*(New update coming tomorrow for level 80 content)

Rawr!

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Old 11/11/08, 2:45 PM   #3722
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
To answer a bit more generically - armor is the top stat right now. Stamina scales better than agility does, but you don't need to go overboard on it; typically the answer is this. Stack armor. Stack stamina until you have enough, then stack agility. Favor dodge over defense. Try to get a good amount of threat but don't be crazy.

This, of course, will change following the removal of getting the bear multiplier on non-leather armor.

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Old 11/11/08, 3:12 PM   #3723
Spherus
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Kel'Thuzad
Does anyone else feel that things are in a rather unacceptable state of limbo right now for level 80 feral tanks? Looking at the itemization through wowhead/mmo-champion/etc it makes me wonder whether we should prefer the rogue/cat-type pieces that are high in agility or the warrior/paladin pieces high in strength/stamina with real tanking stats. To me at least it feels like the rather large impending change to the approach for bear tank mitigation (meaning the boost we get for losing all non-leather bonus armor in our multiplier) means it will be fairly impossible to know which way to go when gearing up.

Presumably at least the new methodology will utilize either stats other than agility (due to DR) or be baked into talents (the iLotP change idea mentioned previously), but it seems like whichever way they go will have a huge impact on what pieces are best-in-slot.

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Old 11/11/08, 3:38 PM   #3724
zxanth
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stormrage
RAWR

Been waiting with HIGH anticipation for the New RAWR, 2.0.3 is missing some stuff for me and I certainly recommend the program to any and all Druids .

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Old 11/11/08, 3:52 PM   #3725
Fasc
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Spherus View Post
Does anyone else feel that things are in a rather unacceptable state of limbo right now for level 80 feral tanks? Looking at the itemization through wowhead/mmo-champion/etc it makes me wonder whether we should prefer the rogue/cat-type pieces that are high in agility or the warrior/paladin pieces high in strength/stamina with real tanking stats. To me at least it feels like the rather large impending change to the approach for bear tank mitigation (meaning the boost we get for losing all non-leather bonus armor in our multiplier) means it will be fairly impossible to know which way to go when gearing up.

Presumably at least the new methodology will utilize either stats other than agility (due to DR) or be baked into talents (the iLotP change idea mentioned previously), but it seems like whichever way they go will have a huge impact on what pieces are best-in-slot.
Luckily for us at the moment, we only have Eye/Sanctuary/Naxx to worry about loot, all of which are quick and fairly easy to plow through, even casually. My plan is to grab full Tier 7 and collect up the best I can get for the current mechanics and anything that falls in the cracks that the other Rogues/Druids/Tanks don't want. Once Blizzard pins down how our stuff will work, I can begin filtering/deleting/changing my sets.

Then there is still the issue of PvP gear being so dominant for tanking but maybe the new mechanics will favor the offensive oriented PvE gear more?

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Old 11/11/08, 3:56 PM   #3726
Spherus
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Kel'Thuzad
It seems like the change to bonus armor (green armor no longer counted towards the multiplier) will largely remove the edge pvp gear has for tanking, but I'm wondering more along the lines of guilds that want to prioritize tanking gear for their tanks in order to progress more quickly/easily. For warriors/paladins it's pretty obvious, for druids it is not and it doesn't seem reasonable that every piece of non-set gear with high agility or high stamina falls under this category.

Edit: You certainly may be right in the sense that Naxx/Eye/Sanctuary are easy enough it doesn't really matter what we equip, but presumably the gear we pick up now (meaning doing those zones) will be used going into the next, more difficult tier.

Last edited by Spherus : 11/11/08 at 4:02 PM.

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Old 11/11/08, 3:59 PM   #3727
Fasc
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ysondre
Well sure the current Brutal gear will pale in comparison (I was planning on getting rid of most of it once in Naxx-25 anyway) but I was speaking more so at the 80 level in attempting to acquire Deadly gear over some of the equal item level PvE pieces. Some are simply stronger in all stats save for offensive ones which is rather silly given our threat output.

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Old 11/11/08, 4:05 PM   #3728
Deliverance
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Fasc, at least for 10 man raiding, I would happily give up a few dozen stamina and a smidgeon of agility in return for a significant increase in dps while tanking as the tank's damageoutput has the potential to be a significant part of the total raid damageoutput. Having more health does not always beat killing a boss faster.

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Old 11/11/08, 4:40 PM   #3729
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
It seems like the change to bonus armor (green armor no longer counted towards the multiplier)
This is not the actual change being made.

The change is that armor in non-leather slots will not be multiplied by the bear armor multiplier. The secondary change is that all staves will have their armor completely removed.

I've seen this statement (the Bonus armor) one done multiple places, and it's simply incorrect. It probably stemmed from an odd statement GC made, but if you read the original blue post and the examples you can see precisely what GC meant:
ARMOR
We are changing the way bear armor works so that bonus armor on items does not receive the bear armor multiplier. Specifically this means that trinkets, rings, necks and cloaks with bonus armor will not be multiplied by the bear bonus. The normal armor on leather will still be multiplied by this bonus. We are also going to remove bonus armor from Feral staves. You’ll get your bonus armor from the leather you acquire.

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Old 11/11/08, 4:41 PM   #3730
TheNameLessOne
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Spirestone
The PVP gear beats out (or ties) the PVE gear due to it having higher stam and roughly equal agility (some pieces even had more). PVE gear wastes stats on garbage like haste and AR. PVP wastes stats on resilience but favors other tanking stats. That is why the new PVP gear beats out the PVE stuff, you are trading a minor threat loss for increased survivability. Tossk and Feltest made a rather large post on the beta forum explaining it, I'll can see if I can dig it up.

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Old 11/11/08, 4:45 PM   #3731
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Fasc, at least for 10 man raiding, I would happily give up a few dozen stamina and a smidgeon of agility in return for a significant increase in dps while tanking as the tank's damageoutput has the potential to be a significant part of the total raid damageoutput. Having more health does not always beat killing a boss faster.
I'm Feltest, by the way.

It really depends on the piece of gear in question. The belt/boots/bracers are especially good PvP items for PvE as they have sockets that PvE doesn't have, making it much better in terms of stats. There are a couple of other particularly good pieces - most notably the PvP items that don't compete against the PvE gear with expertise. And we're not talking about a smidgen of agility or stamina; we're talking about 100+ stamina and 50ish agility.

The real big win is that you can get the pvp gear before you go into Naxx, which means you're doing Naxx progression with Naxx-level gear. That's quite strong, and puts druids in quite a good position as progression tanks. If that pattern holds for T8 and 9, it will make them very strong.

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Old 11/11/08, 4:53 PM   #3732
Spherus
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by kalbear View Post
This is not the actual change being made.
Apologies - I was talking about the additional "green" armor on leather pvp gear (aka brutal) not being multiplied (only the underlying base armor on the items). I had forgotten they were removing this component completely in Wrath.

Originally Posted by kalbear View Post
The real big win is that you can get the pvp gear before you go into Naxx, which means you're doing Naxx progression with Naxx-level gear. That's quite strong, and puts druids in quite a good position as progression tanks. If that pattern holds for T8 and 9, it will make them very strong.
This is something I sincerely hope is addressed in the revamp of mitigation for bears. It would be a true pain if pvp gear were always better on a per-slot basis compared to drops in the raiding zones themselves.

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Old 11/11/08, 5:09 PM   #3733
Promethius
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by nightcrowler View Post
At previous poster: ImpLoP actually does 50% overhealing as other healers usually do. The main problem of ImpLoP is that it doesn't display into recount as healing done by you but if you sum up ImpLoP healing recived by all the raid you'll be stupified. In a 10 men I usually have 10-15% of total healing and a good 5% in 25 men.

I don't see the problem in a quicker but lesser healing done by ImpLoP.
DPS classes like rogues, hunters, enh shamans and fury warriors would most likely get more procs from a zero cd Imp LotP than a bear in single target situation. When I proposed my idea for losing the cd on Imp LotP, I had also suggested that the aura aspect for healing also get removed and make the healing for the druid only, but this was before seeing how Blizzard decided to mess around with Vampiric Embrace. They appear to have the capability of making the healing effect stronger on the originator of the ability than the rest of the raid. Thus, a way to balance the aura aspect to avoid making the ability too strong for non tanking ferals could be to implement half the intended healing to be base line in LotP, and provide the other half in Imp LotP but for the druid only, as well as the proper mana return. As an example, let's say the intended balance is 2% hp restore, 4% mana restore. LotP would provide 1% restoration of hp on crit to anyone with the aura. Then each point of Imp Lotp would increase that by 0.5% and give 2% mana restore per point.

Although, if the parses for healing done by Judgment of Light are accurate and Blizzard considers that to still be within balance, perhaps full effect healing from a no cd Imp LotP isn't even an issue to pve balance. However, there does seem to be inconsistency in how Blizzard is handling passive healing effects, so who knows what's considered too powerful.

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Old 11/11/08, 5:11 PM   #3734
Edwardino
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Executus
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but you can still do the original Feral Charge in cat form. I.E. Shift to bear->Charge->Shift to cat. FC in bear is still off the GCD. Shifting of course isn't, but by the time you reach your destination you should be good.

I only mention this because Bear FC has a 15 second CD while Cat FC has a 30 second CD- but they're both linked. If you charge in this fashion, your Cat CD will refresh in 15 seconds.

I'm a tad bit angry at Blizzard outright stating that they wish to limit shifting as much as possible. To me, it has always been the drive behind the class. Tricks and quirks such as these should be encouraged as they promote skillful play. Perhaps by pointing this quirk out I'll be indirectly contributing against this idea (as it may be nerfed), but I figured in a game such as this, we need all the skill-based elements we can get.

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Old 11/11/08, 5:21 PM   #3735
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Edwardino View Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but you can still do the original Feral Charge in cat form. I.E. Shift to bear->Charge->Shift to cat. FC in bear is still off the GCD. Shifting of course isn't, but by the time you reach your destination you should be good.

I only mention this because Bear FC has a 15 second CD while Cat FC has a 30 second CD- but they're both linked. If you charge in this fashion, your Cat CD will refresh in 15 seconds.

I'm a tad bit angry at Blizzard outright stating that they wish to limit shifting as much as possible. To me, it has always been the drive behind the class. Tricks and quirks such as these should be encouraged as they promote skillful play. Perhaps by pointing this quirk out I'll be indirectly contributing against this idea (as it may be nerfed), but I figured in a game such as this, we need all the skill-based elements we can get.
Only down side to this is mana consumption, but it does seem vastly better than cat form feral charge since it's on lower CD and actually immobilizes. The only cat form feral charge benefit has been the cute cat "i'm going to kill you" leap animation anyway.

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