for pve trash tank... most certainly.... but for pvp I'd rather have 3 points in infected....
And for PvE bosses it doesn't matter....

Unless my math is off, with one point in IW, at any point where you have a stack going, you'll lose the stack quite alot in bear.

Is that taking Windfury haste into account?

Yes. But you can put only 2/3 and the stack will lose with a very very low chance.

Supposing you don't wear a lot of hit gear/ expertise gear, so you will have a 10% total chance to miss the attack.

In 12 seconds you will do 2 mangle and about 5 maul. So 7 special. (((1-0.9*0.66))^7)= 0.2% chance to miss the stack.

With only 1 point in infected wound: (((1-0.9*0.33))^7)= 8.5% chance to miss the stack.

I found 2 error in the code I posted at page 24 (now I've corrected it):
- FB scaling was wrong
- KoJ didn't add energy.

Corrected and redo the simulation, dps increase, the best cycle stay the same.

DPS: 3518.91, White: 997.882, Yellow: 2521.03, Bleed debuff uptime: 59.5387%, Mangle debuff uptime: 78.7746%, Powershifts each 5.04202 seconds (average)

Using 5RIP will make a slight increase in dps but you'll need to powershift 25% more, it's basically not sostenible as a cycle.

I was having a play around with the talent calculators earlier, and putting fewer points in IW is basically the solution I came up with as well. For end game raid tanking, I'll be looking at something like:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The salient points being:

o 2/3 Survival of the Fittest, with the assumption that boss vs player crit chance doesn't change (remains at 5.6%) and that we can pick up the incidental 1.6% required from shared drops (neck, rings, cape etc) and enchants. If so, the only loss is 2% in base attributes.

o 2/3 Infected Wounds which should result in a reasonably high uptime of the debuff, as calculated above.

o No Imp LotP T.T

Alternately:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

If 3/3 SotF ends up being vital, we could easily drop 1 from Feral Instinct and only take a minor hit on AoE threat.

This will be my built: http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

Rend & Tear is the talent I'll take If I have 100 talent points. 1 point is Survival is probably better than 5/5 R&T DPS wise.

Did a bunch more testing of the energy regen... Very interesting stuff, will post my findings tomorrow. Short version: Wolfshead is working, it just isn't displaying the energy from it, client-side. Server side, it is working. Powershift, you appear to have 40 energy, after 1sec GCD you appear to have 50energy. But Mangle, it drops you to 41. You'd expect it to drop you to 21 without Wolfshead (and it does, without wolfshead).

This will more than likely be the dps build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 and the tank build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 depending on what your role is in the raid you would of course switch some things up.

Your tank build takes improved bash and improved mangle (cat only) but skips thick hide and 2% more dodge? Also, feral charge isn't wasted for a tanking build.

Edit: Hmm, it looks like maybe you just linked the dps build twice?

It would be nice if Natural Shapeshifter/Master Shapeshifter was thinned from 5 pts total to possibly 3. Those 2 extra points could be used to fill out IW.

Actually:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

It would be better if Furor was made a base talent, and Natural Shapeshifting Moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1
Tier 2 should Improved Shifting 2pts. 1 point adding 5 energy / 2 rage per shift / Improving Mana Regeneration while in Aqua, Travel, Cat, Dire Bear Form by 10/20%. Natural Shapeshifter should be 2 pts talent reducing HT by 0.25/0.25 and increasing melee damage by 5%/5%

This does some interesting stuff to when the ideal powershift is. Right now, mana dependent I tend to set my cutoff on mangle at 15 or below and shred at 22 or below. Wonder what the ideals will be for fluid energy.... something akin to however much energy you would regen in a 1s gcd?

If you had 0 latency, you'd just always powershift at 10 energy. However, there's latency between when you get enough energy to use whatever skill, and when the server actually gets and responds to that request to use that skill, then latency again for when the GCD ends and the server responds to your request to powershift. For example, powershifting after a 29 energy Mangle, with a 200ms ping would look like this:

0.0sec: Energy regens to 29. You send the request to cast Mangle.
0.2sec: Energy regens to 31. You receive the cast confirmation from the server, dropping energy to 2.
1.2sec: GCD ends, energy regens to 12. You send the request to Powershift.
1.4sec: Energy regens to 14. You receive the powershift confirmation from the server, dropping energy to 0.
1.9sec: Energy regens to 5. You receive the Furor notification from the server, bumping your energy to 45. (Note that when Furor applies still varies, but it's always before the powershift GCD ends, so it doesn't really matter)

So net gain from the Powershift is 26 energy for 200ms ping. Basically, the fluid energy change removes how much energy you have after a cast from the equation, and simplifies the energy gain of a powershift to (30 - 2xPING). Powershifting macros should just be set to powershift when energy is less than or equal to (11+PING). 10+PING would be ideal, but pings fluctuate a bit, so use 11 to add a 1 energy buffer.

At least right now one or more bleed effects can be guaranteed to be on a boss in raids, and more than likely in 25 mans assuming you're putting up the rip. 10% more damage from your highest combo move is pretty stellar.

But is it pretty stellar... per talent point? 2% damage on one skill that's probably somewhere in the ballpark of 20-40% of our damage... That's a 0.4% to 0.8% damage increase per talent point. Is that really stellar? Maybe it is, I dunno, but it's definitely something we should theorycraft out (when the time is right), not just assume zomgbigshredcritz and 5/5 it.

As far as that goes, I figure about 1% DPS per talent point is the make or break point in terms of when something's useful. Anything less than that and it's probably not good enough. Anything more and it's clearly going to be something you want. I don't disagree that it could, in theory, not be good enough - but at the same time, it's very hard to think of talents other than it that do more dps or are so much better from a utility standpoint that you'd want them first.

For example, the user that said R&T wasn't so great took 5 points to get master shapeshifter. With the mana regen being changed for forms, it's hard for me to believe that 30% savings on shifting + 4% crit is going to be better than rend and tear's 4-5% DPS increase. And that's just cat form; increasing the maul damage is going to be similarly a big deal, though it's a much close comparison to master shapeshifter.

Interesting changes coming in next build (from a blue)

Base Crit Increased by 5%

Bad Scaling, OoC reworked

So at 70 you should only expect to lose 1-2% crit (assuming you pick up master shapeshifter) and haste will be better now (exact numbers TBD)

A full talented druid with zero agility will now have 20% crit (5% base, 6% sharpened claws, 5% leader of the pack, 4% master shapeshifter). That's pretty funny.

Wow, thats really great :-)

I am still not convinced to take the 5 points for master shapeshifter in any other situation than in an pvp build (and even there I can imagine some reasonable builds leaving those points out). Feral tree alone is a talent point sink. I hope they will merge one or more talents. Otherwise I would have to make decision between pve cat and pve bear we should make.

Being capable of both qualified tanking and dpsing (which is only true to a lesser extend in swp and late BT) is why ferals are there. It would be perfectly reasonable if you had to choose between pve and pvp talents. But I don't think ferals should make choices between bear and cat.

I think master shapeshifter giving cat form 4% crit while bear form gets 4% damage is fairly silly. It should just be 4% damage for bear, cat, and moonkin, and 4% healing for tree.

WoW Forums -> Agilit nerf / Sharpened Claws talent

how much crit do you have raid buffed? I have 56% Crit (and around 4.5-5k atp and some arp)
on live I mean not on ptr/beta

How much will i lose 15%? 15% is far more than 5%. Its a massive 10% (and with talents even more) nerf.

WoW Forums -> Cat form end-game scaling...

while it seems that this will exactly push haste to do 10% more OOC procs which is great, it will not scale our WHITE DAMAGE with haste cause our main weapon damage is low and AS high, percentual scaling of our haste does almost nothing.

*Sadcat*


I think it should be tier 1 and 2 and furor build in.