Second paragraph. So no I didnt miss it. And I already said why I am trying to avoid the new talents. I just do not have enough information to say how they will affect us. Also, I find it really bad that I have to take new talents to get closer to where I was, while every other class can take new talents to get stronger. The idea that the new talents will put us on an even field is flawed for that reason. In my dps gear right now, I have a combined 2% miss/dodge rate. most of that can be eaten up by more expertise, but at that point, I have to get rid of other dps increasing talents to get it. Same with Rend and Tear which there is some dispute on how much damage it really is. Shred makes up about 30% of my damage right now, so at best, it is a 3% increase in my dps. I just ate 5 new talent points to still be ~11 dps behind where I am now, and that is assuming I do not sacrifice anything else that increases dps, aka I get to lvl 75. Haste gear has never been very good for ferals. Depending on you gear, white attacks are only 20 - 40% of your overall damage.

Also, the stated reason why we got the agility nerf was that we are supposed to stack strength, not agility. But wait, looky here, there isnt any strength on the new leather. Does that count as a stealth nerf?

I didnt forget about Survival of the Fittest, I am just trying to remember the math to get my original agility and strength so I can figure out how much of a dps boost it is at my gear. And keep in mind as I said earlier, there is no strength on the new leather and we are being pulled away from agility, so SotF is not that much of a buff anymore.

In bear form, more haste is not unnecessarily better due to parry mechanics. If we tank in haste heavy gear, we will also need to stack on expertise to keep from getting parried to death. Also, as we equip less agility gear we lose a lot of our dodge, meaning we take more damage and we will die more easily. As there really isnt that much gear past lvl 77, it is really hard to say what end game looks like.

In conclusion, I still say that ferals are going back to our pre-BC standing unless something changes big time between now and when WotLK is released.

You're probably right on the damage contribution of crit after talents and combo points.

The itemization thing though is just bind on equip items versus bind on pickup items in the expansion though. If you look at other itemization, the bind on equip stuff is generally much worse than bind on pickup items that require the same level to equip.

As long as there are bop feral staves, that won't be a limiting factor.

Yeah, I cant argue about the BoE vs BoP thing. That IS the only blue feral weapon in the beta right now. The closest thing to a feral dps staff is Staff of the Duty Bound from a lvl 76 quest and it is a green. Stat wise, it seems similar to [Staff of Primal Fury] . Which still makes my point that unless Blizzard adds something new, we will be lagging behind on gear since the equivalent level of progression is BoP blues with stats equivalent to T6 rather then T5.

Its almost certain they'll add the proper itemization, at least with respect to ilvls. There were a ton of weapons available for ferals pre-raid near the end of leveling (Nexus king quest, Cipher of Damnation quest, Botanica Staff etc).

Its unclear what the agi/crit change is for but there's clearly some reason for it. Putting our crit in line with Rogues might be the goal, though it seems a tad odd. Combo point generation might be a tad tough (though the new King of the Jungle talent is insanely good for this).

Tenshirou's post of 'math' is almost entirely inaccurate. 1% crit is not even remotely close to 1% damage. It varies by gear level. With 50% crit, 1% more crit is ~0.666% more damage. And 14ap is not even remotely close to 1dps. That also varies by gear level, but for me it's 3.85 ap per dps. You forgot crit/hit on your Tiger's Fury calculations, so add another 40%-50% to your TF calcs. Even with the same (inferior) spec, you'll be about on par for DPS with what you had before.

But most importantly, none of this 'balance at 70' whining matters. When 3.0 hits, balance at 70 won't matter. Balance at 80 is what will matter, and doing any sort of commenting on that at this point is simply a waste of everyone's time to do.

That is exactly how it reads in the Beta currently. You do retain the buff while shifting to other forms(including caster). It's not castable in caster/travel/flight forms however.

Exactly, you can't just look at single changes in a vacuum and try to make any kind of meaninful patch 3.0 level 70 analysis, because it simply doesn't matter. The Agility nerf is a deserved one, 50-55% crit rates are ridiculous, 50%+ unbuffed dodge rates are ridiculous. The level of mudflation at this stage of TBC's lifespan is pretty wild, you can't simply let the natural deflation of level based inverse scaling (ratings, agi conversions) happen. You'd lose very little actual power .. by the time end of WotLK mudflation was in full swing, you'd be walking around with 80% crit or something equally crazy.

Trust in them to get the balance of the new skills right, combat mechanics are changing significantly. We may not necessarily need or want to keep 100% Rip uptime tight cycles anymore, we may prefer Savage Fury uptime instead. Primal Fury cps aren't the only way to compress cycles, you'd have Tiger's Fury and Berserk.

Just look at how far Feral Druids have come since:
Feral Druid Discussion

WotLK is going to take us even further.

Why is a 50% (60%, realistically) unbuffed dodge rate ridiculous? Again, tanks need to have similar levels of avoidance in order for content to be designed around any of the 3 classes tanking them. Warriors have ~65% combined miss/dodge/parry.

Telling people not to complain during a beta is bad advice; beta is the best time for feedback as it is the point at which something most likely to be fixed. Relatedly, Druids/Ret Paladins have always been low on the hybrid DPS meters. You have Enhancement shaman/warriors dealing 2200dps on Brutallus and Druids rarely getting to 1900dps; that is fairly absurd when Bloodlust alone is 600rdps.

I've made a video showing feral charge (cat) jumping over water available here: YouTube - WoTLK beta - Feral Charge (Cat) Mark II
It seems to share the same mechanics as shadowstep in that youre able to travel over obstacles with it which is sort of nice, it does however travel slowly midair and often you land out of melee range since mobs are able to move away while you jump.
If you want me to test the ability in any other way just let me know and I'll try my best!

Why do you keep bringing up Warrior avoidance? What difference does it make if content is balanced around all four tanking classes having ~20% combined avoidance at the Naxx 2.0 level and 30% at the post Arthas level instead of 40/50 or 60/70 or whatever? It prevents unhittable tanks. It prevents avoidance from becoming the one sole thing to strive for once you reach necessary baseline survivability. It prevents stuff like Sunwell Radiance. And that's a good thing. Can you honestly not see what a crude, hamfisted joke of an idea Sunwell Radiance is?

Can you tell me how much combined miss/dodge/parry Warriors have when they first zone into Naxx 2.0? While they're tanking neo Kel'thuzad? While tanking Arthas?

No one's saying we shouldn't complain during beta. But there are right and wrong ways to complain. Bringing up our lower scaling with haste relative to dual wielders (especially in light of the new WF totem) is a valid complaint. Bitching that Agi conversion ratios were nerfed at level 70 is not.

Is the daze effect applied when you land or when you cast the spell?