Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 38

Edgeworth · 07/28/08, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

I noticed on MMO that Improved Mangle is back at 7% cooldown reduction for bear. If 3/3 gives 21%, that is 4.74 seconds cooldown (i am not sure however what the 3/3 value is). What do you think is the reason for this change?

I'd say that while it wont mess any our "rotations" that much (0.24 seconds wasted when waiting for Mangle), it simply seems irrational.

MMO-champion is wrong. The official talent calculator got updated with the alpha version of the talent by mistake, and the people at MMO-champion jumped the gun and posted that the talent was being changed back.

For reference, the official talent calculators have been updated again since then and now show the correct versions of Improved Mangle and Primal Tenacity: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

manapaws · 07/28/08, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Snarley

With the haste gear I have on + DST proc I have never seen my attack speed in cat go below .83. I was curious as to wether it would go lower in the expansion. And again I will say that I am unaware of any hard capped attack speed in cat but I was assuming that it would not go any lower then that on live.

I was not aware there was a cap. I've been at 0.60 after a powershift (I have haste potion macro'd to my powershift) during bloodlust.

• Hamlet · 07/28/08, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by manapaws

I was not aware there was a cap. I've been at 0.60 after a powershift (I have haste potion macro'd to my powershift) during bloodlust.

I'd never heard anything about a cap. I know there's been a myth about a general 1s minimum melee swing time for a while, but it wasn't actually true (ask any Rogue who gets Unholy Frenzy in Hyjal). I'm not aware of any evidence of a minimum for Cats either.

tlbj6142 · 07/28/08, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by loos

Any people in this forum who can relate some first-hand experience with IW and bosses?

From my source...

All I can speak to is my experience in Nexus. When I was in Nexus perhaps most of those mobs are immune to the effect. Once or twice I saw the debuff show up to be instantly removed. I never got it stacked.

TheNameLessOne · 07/28/08, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

From my source...

Does anyone know if mobs in that instance have some anti-disease ability and/or cleansing spell?

Pike · 07/28/08, 3:04 PM

If they saw the debuff apply, then get removed shortly afterwards, maybe it's just a stacking issue with another debuff? If they only had 1-2 applications of the debuff stacked, maybe a more powerful debuff overwrote them?

TheNameLessOne · 07/28/08, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by Pike

If they saw the debuff apply, then get removed shortly afterwards, maybe it's just a stacking issue with another debuff? If they only had 1-2 applications of the debuff stacked, maybe a more powerful debuff overwrote them?

DKs will also eat the debuff repeatedly w/ obliterate and a few of their other abilities.

Arentios · 07/28/08, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by TheNameLessOne

DKs will also eat the debuff repeatedly w/ obliterate and a few of their other abilities.

Obliterate only eats diseases that you yourself put up there, not those of other players.

• Chicken · 07/28/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Arentios

Obliterate only eats diseases that you yourself put up there, not those of other players.

It's currently eating all diseases, I don't believe it's ever been stated whether it's only supposed to eat the diseases the Death Knight owns or not, but currently on beta it removes all diseases from who or whatever is being Obliterated.

Originally Posted by Blackberry

The way Obliterate reads it's supposed to deal damage only based on the diseases 'owned' by you, and I would assume that includes owned by your pets/dancing rune blade. However, it's stripping off all diseases, even ones 'owned' by another player right now.

Source: WoW Forums -> Obliterate and Blood Strike

Shakes · 07/28/08, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mihir

In that case the BC high-armor leather items (especially the sunwell ones) might last very long into WotLK, since green armor is a much more effective way of increasing survivability than stamina is.

I would be surprised if this was the case. Given all the other stats appear to be doubling (eg green/blue/purple gems are x2 their BC values) it's not unreasonable to expect base armor on items to also double.

The feral T6 has about twice the armor of the rogue T4. So therefore, if stats doubling for equivalent items holds true, you can expect T7 to have as much armor as T6 even without any green armor, as well as much better stats.

seminarca · 07/28/08, 8:22 PM

One thing that needs to be kept in mind re: DPS cycles is that the Rip formula is changing. At the moment, we are content to do either 4 or 5 cp Rips since they both get the same AP contribution (4-5 cp = 0.24 * AP, 3 cp = 0.18 * AP). In WotLK, 5 cp = 0.3 * AP, 4 cp = 0.24 * AP, 3 cp = 0.18 * AP. So this will affect finisher priority, I hope you considered this in your simulation nightcrowler.

Re: Infected Wounds. That does seem more like a bug, or dispel or override than the talent not working. As for whether to take it or not, while it's true that if you can get a Warrior TClapping for you IW loses value, it's also true that it's not always possible to have a Warrior TClapping for you.

E.g. MT'ing Felmyst, you either cripple your DPS Warrior by forcing him to stance dance and TClap for you, or cripple him by forcing him to stay Battle Stance and lose Whirlwind and some crit, or bring in a Prot Warrior just to debuffbitch. IW would have value there. Also on phase type fights (like Kalecgos) where your Warrior won't always be there to do it for you. Or on multimob fights where you can't expect your Warrior to saunter over and TClap Veras for you while he's tanking Gathios.

nightcrowler · 07/28/08, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by seminarca

One thing that needs to be kept in mind re: DPS cycles is that the Rip formula is changing. At the moment, we are content to do either 4 or 5 cp Rips since they both get the same AP contribution (4-5 cp = 0.24 * AP, 3 cp = 0.18 * AP). In WotLK, 5 cp = 0.3 * AP, 4 cp = 0.24 * AP, 3 cp = 0.18 * AP. So this will affect on finisher priority, I hope you considered this in your simulation nightcrowler.

Sure. I used the new formulas reported by MMO-Champions. Basically a 5-cp rip will do more damage, but you will lost 1 cp on crit and you'll increase the cycle lenghts making more difficult to have both SR and RIP up. So a 4 cp RIP is still the better choce. For a similar reason, while doing a 2-3 or 4 cp SR cycle is similar dps wise, doing a 5 cp SR cycle lower the dps by a large amount.

seminarca · 07/28/08, 9:20 PM

Fair enough, that makes sense. What kind of SR and Rip uptime are you seeing with 2s/4r? Also, would you mind posting your source code for review? Thanks for all the work on this!

TheNameLessOne · 07/28/08, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by seminarca

Re: Infected Wounds. That does seem more like a bug, or dispel or override than the talent not working. As for whether to take it or not, while it's true that if you can get a Warrior TClapping for you IW loses value, it's also true that it's not always possible to have a Warrior TClapping for you.

E.g. MT'ing Felmyst, you either cripple your DPS Warrior by forcing him to stance dance and TClap for you, or cripple him by forcing him to stay Battle Stance and lose Whirlwind and some crit, or bring in a Prot Warrior just to debuffbitch. IW would have value there. Also on phase type fights (like Kalecgos) where your Warrior won't always be there to do it for you. Or on multimob fights where you can't expect your Warrior to saunter over and TClap Veras for you while he's tanking Gathios.

Prot paladins' judgments and DKs' Icy Touch also do the attack speed lowering. So you don't need a TC spamming warrior anymore. Also either of these abilities could also be screwing w/ IW, especially Icy Touch as any DK can cast it.

EDIT: Forgot, there is also Rank 9 Curse of Weakness which is 20%. So add warlocks to the mix as well.

Shifting · 07/28/08, 11:26 PM

Glyph of Mangle - Increases the duration of Mangle by 6 sec.
Glyph of Rip - Increases the duration of your Rip ability by 3 sec.

Anyone care to come up with a rotation using SR now with those glyphs?