Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07/29/08, 6:32 PM   #601
Apaine
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blood Furnace
for pve trash tank... most certainly.... but for pvp I'd rather have 3 points in infected....
And for PvE bosses it doesn't matter....

Offline
Old 07/29/08, 7:33 PM   #602
Sambamc
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun
Originally Posted by arlièn View Post
I was wondering about SotF, would it be possible to leave one point out? I reckon we still get some defence from items as rings, necklaces and cloaks? putting that one point in infected wounds should be enough to get a stack up and running. it would save some precious talent points.
Unless my math is off, with one point in IW, at any point where you have a stack going, you'll lose the stack quite alot in bear.

Offline
Old 07/29/08, 10:07 PM   #603
Falk
Soda Popinski
 
Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account
Is that taking Windfury haste into account?

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 12:01 AM   #604
nightcrowler
Don Flamenco
 
nightcrowler's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Sambamc View Post
Unless my math is off, with one point in IW, at any point where you have a stack going, you'll lose the stack quite alot in bear.
Yes. But you can put only 2/3 and the stack will lose with a very very low chance.

Supposing you don't wear a lot of hit gear/ expertise gear, so you will have a 10% total chance to miss the attack.

In 12 seconds you will do 2 mangle and about 5 maul. So 7 special. (((1-0.9*0.66))^7)= 0.2% chance to miss the stack.

With only 1 point in infected wound: (((1-0.9*0.33))^7)= 8.5% chance to miss the stack.

I found 2 error in the code I posted at page 24 (now I've corrected it):
- FB scaling was wrong
- KoJ didn't add energy.

Corrected and redo the simulation, dps increase, the best cycle stay the same.

DPS: 3518.91, White: 997.882, Yellow: 2521.03, Bleed debuff uptime: 59.5387%, Mangle debuff uptime: 78.7746%, Powershifts each 5.04202 seconds (average)

Using 5RIP will make a slight increase in dps but you'll need to powershift 25% more, it's basically not sostenible as a cycle.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 12:36 AM   #605
seminarca
Don Flamenco
 
Retired
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
I was having a play around with the talent calculators earlier, and putting fewer points in IW is basically the solution I came up with as well. For end game raid tanking, I'll be looking at something like:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The salient points being:

o 2/3 Survival of the Fittest, with the assumption that boss vs player crit chance doesn't change (remains at 5.6%) and that we can pick up the incidental 1.6% required from shared drops (neck, rings, cape etc) and enchants. If so, the only loss is 2% in base attributes.

o 2/3 Infected Wounds which should result in a reasonably high uptime of the debuff, as calculated above.

o No Imp LotP T.T

Alternately:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

If 3/3 SotF ends up being vital, we could easily drop 1 from Feral Instinct and only take a minor hit on AoE threat.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 1:19 AM   #606
nightcrowler
Don Flamenco
 
nightcrowler's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
This will be my built: http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

Rend & Tear is the talent I'll take If I have 100 talent points. 1 point is Survival is probably better than 5/5 R&T DPS wise.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 2:21 AM   #607
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
Boevis's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
However, IW is 0 effective DPS. And I'm fairly certain (caveat emptor) that having a warrior thunderclap every 30 seconds is going to be a lower DPS reduction and better Mit for the tank than 2 IW

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 3:44 AM   #608
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Did a bunch more testing of the energy regen... Very interesting stuff, will post my findings tomorrow. Short version: Wolfshead is working, it just isn't displaying the energy from it, client-side. Server side, it is working. Powershift, you appear to have 40 energy, after 1sec GCD you appear to have 50energy. But Mangle, it drops you to 41. You'd expect it to drop you to 21 without Wolfshead (and it does, without wolfshead).

Rawr!

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 8:13 AM   #609
Shifting
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Spirestone
This will more than likely be the dps build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 and the tank build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 depending on what your role is in the raid you would of course switch some things up.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 9:03 AM   #610
Tappin
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
This will more than likely be the dps build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 and the tank build http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000 depending on what your role is in the raid you would of course switch some things up.
Your tank build takes improved bash and improved mangle (cat only) but skips thick hide and 2% more dodge? Also, feral charge isn't wasted for a tanking build.

Edit: Hmm, it looks like maybe you just linked the dps build twice?

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 10:51 AM   #611
Garanthir
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
It would be nice if Natural Shapeshifter/Master Shapeshifter was thinned from 5 pts total to possibly 3. Those 2 extra points could be used to fill out IW.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 11:02 AM   #612
ionasej
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostwolf (EU)
Actually:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

It would be better if Furor was made a base talent, and Natural Shapeshifting Moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1
Tier 2 should Improved Shifting 2pts. 1 point adding 5 energy / 2 rage per shift / Improving Mana Regeneration while in Aqua, Travel, Cat, Dire Bear Form by 10/20%. Natural Shapeshifter should be 2 pts talent reducing HT by 0.25/0.25 and increasing melee damage by 5%/5%

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 12:30 PM   #613
TheNameLessOne
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Spirestone
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
However, IW is 0 effective DPS. And I'm fairly certain (caveat emptor) that having a warrior thunderclap every 30 seconds is going to be a lower DPS reduction and better Mit for the tank than 2 IW
Don't forget Curse of Weakness and Icy Touch

CoW will cost the raid either CoE, Cor or hurts the locks on DPS w/ CoD/CoA. Highly dependent on how many locks are present and what spec they are.

Icy Touch on the other hand may or may not be in a DK's attack rotation anyways, haven't been paying attention to their DPS rotations.

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 12:47 PM   #614
BeldDD
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
Did a bunch more testing of the energy regen... Very interesting stuff, will post my findings tomorrow. Short version: Wolfshead is working, it just isn't displaying the energy from it, client-side. Server side, it is working. Powershift, you appear to have 40 energy, after 1sec GCD you appear to have 50energy. But Mangle, it drops you to 41. You'd expect it to drop you to 21 without Wolfshead (and it does, without wolfshead).
This does some interesting stuff to when the ideal powershift is. Right now, mana dependent I tend to set my cutoff on mangle at 15 or below and shred at 22 or below. Wonder what the ideals will be for fluid energy.... something akin to however much energy you would regen in a 1s gcd?

Offline
Old 07/30/08, 2:26 PM   #615
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
If you had 0 latency, you'd just always powershift at 10 energy. However, there's latency between when you get enough energy to use whatever skill, and when the server actually gets and responds to that request to use that skill, then latency again for when the GCD ends and the server responds to your request to powershift. For example, powershifting after a 29 energy Mangle, with a 200ms ping would look like this:

0.0sec: Energy regens to 29. You send the request to cast Mangle.
0.2sec: Energy regens to 31. You receive the cast confirmation from the server, dropping energy to 2.
1.2sec: GCD ends, energy regens to 12. You send the request to Powershift.
1.4sec: Energy regens to 14. You receive the powershift confirmation from the server, dropping energy to 0.
1.9sec: Energy regens to 5. You receive the Furor notification from the server, bumping your energy to 45. (Note that when Furor applies still varies, but it's always before the powershift GCD ends, so it doesn't really matter)

So net gain from the Powershift is 26 energy for 200ms ping. Basically, the fluid energy change removes how much energy you have after a cast from the equation, and simplifies the energy gain of a powershift to (30 - 2xPING). Powershifting macros should just be set to powershift when energy is less than or equal to (11+PING). 10+PING would be ideal, but pings fluctuate a bit, so use 11 to add a 1 energy buffer.

Rawr!

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools