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Old 07/31/08, 5:08 PM   #691
• Vykromond
the staleness of Max's dumps
 
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Vykromond
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
The stock out of the box UI supports keybindings. It also supports multiple bars and macros.

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Old 07/31/08, 5:08 PM   #692
Tamber
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
Doesn't break until a significant amount of damage is hit (same as fear or roots)
I guess it all depends on what that "significant amount of damage" will be. I usually shred as a followup to maim. I'm guessing a full shred (especially if it crits) will nearly always break the maim. I'd be very curious to see what people in beta have observed...

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Old 07/31/08, 5:18 PM   #693
tlbj6142
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Vykromond View Post
The stock out of the box UI supports keybindings. It also supports multiple bars and macros.
Correct, but they are advanced features. You and I are way too smart, yet there are plenty of casual idiot players in WoW. The game has work for dumb monkeys as well as mensa players.

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Old 07/31/08, 5:36 PM   #694
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Just to clarify, Maim is not nerfed. It's not just that it breaks after a certain amount of bleed damage, it just breaks after a certain amount of TOTAL damage. Direct attacks do *not* break it. You can get a bunch of bleeds up, maim, keep autoattacking, shred, and it stays maimed.

Rawr!

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Old 07/31/08, 6:30 PM   #695
tlbj6142
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by tlbj6142 View Post
Correct, but they are advanced features. You and I are way too smart, yet there are plenty of casual idiot players in WoW. The game has work for dumb monkeys as well as mensa players.
<wipes egg of his monkey face>

Ooops! I forgot pounce and ravage. Dang that's quit a few buttons for 1 form.

Quickly switching gears so you will forget about my past transgressions, how are you going to deal with the influx in new skills in the Xpac and their impact on your UI?

For bear, there is just Berserk and i have plenty of space for it, plus it will be rarely used due to the long CD, so i bury it somewhere "out-of-reach".

For cat i see Feral charge, Tiger's fury (not on my bar today), Savage Roar and Berserk. I don't see myself using cat form FC all that often as it is primarily a PvP skill and Berserk has 5m CD so I can bury it. But a new finishing move and the, now required, TF! Not sure i have that many keys within reach! ugh! WTB n52 for left-handers.

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Old 07/31/08, 7:12 PM   #696
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
FC(C) is awesome. You'll use it alot. Any time you would move toward a mob in cat form, and its cooldown is up, you'll want to use it. A) It's faster. B) It's frelling cool.

EDIT: BTW... Mewbombs. Oh yes. Not just Mewbombs. Stealth Membombs.

Rawr!

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Old 07/31/08, 7:21 PM   #697
Miststorm
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nordrassil (EU)
As for cat dps scaling, it looks like we are starting to go into the right direction, but not fast enough.

The changed scaling on OOC will improve the value of haste, but with a base 12 energy per second regen (including KotJ), the 3.5 free attacks per minute being worth around 2 energy per second, it amounts to just 1/7th of our yellow damage made scaleable by haste. The gap with rogues is larger though (They tend to get 65% to 70% white damage to our 45% to 50% in TBC), so it would be welcome if haste would reduce the cooldown on Tigers Fury as well, to effectively double the yellow damage improved by haste.

After all, with the change to WF totem to provide melee haste instead of a main hand weapon buff, Rogues will benefit from freshly hasted off-hand attacks as well, meaning they still get a 1.75 1.2 / 1.95 = 7.7% buff to their white damage compared to our 20% buff to white damage, so its contribution to closing the scaling gap is smaller than hoped, and should be addressed somewhere else.

The change in crit chance scaling for Agility is partly welcome as far it will ensure that agility is no longer the outstanding stat to stack (Agility being better for crit than crit rating was bad design), but instead of giving us 5% extra base crit to compensate for the loss, it would have been nicer to up the scaling on agility a bit to 33 1/3 agility per crit from 40 agi / crit. While keeping with the same effect with 1000 agi (live 40% crit, both versions 30%), it would not introduce another non-scaling factor.

As for our new finisher, I am afraid it will be expensive to keep up. We have no equivalent to the 45% extra duration Rogues have on SnD, we have no combo points given from finishers, so it looks to be put into a rotation alternating with Rip. Something like SR, M, S, S, S, wait energy R, M, S, S, S wait energy, which would expect you to give two 5pt finishers for a total cost of 25+30+2*34+6*42 = 375 energy. Take out the 100 energy you can wait on, you would need to regen (375-100)/21 = 13 energy per second, which can be achieved with our new OoC and TF energy return, with some part of the cycle without Savage Roar up, depending on your crit rate and luck with OoC procs.

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Old 07/31/08, 7:25 PM   #698
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The new glyphs for mangle and rip duration should help there (unless you already factored that in).

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Old 07/31/08, 7:28 PM   #699
coredumperror
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
<SiN>
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by Miststorm View Post
As for our new finisher, I am afraid it will be expensive to keep up. We have no equivalent to the 45% extra duration Rogues have on SnD, we have no combo points given from finishers, so it looks to be put into a rotation alternating with Rip. Something like SR, M, S, S, S, wait energy R, M, S, S, S wait energy, which would expect you to give two 5pt finishers for a total cost of 25+30+2*34+6*42 = 375 energy. Take out the 100 energy you can wait on, you would need to regen (375-100)/21 = 13 energy per second, which can be achieved with our new OoC and TF energy return, with some part of the cycle without Savage Roar up, depending on your crit rate and luck with OoC procs.
Don't forget about powershifting! With the change to energy regen, Powershifting will become significantly more powerful for energy management than it already is today. That should bridge the gap, I think.

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Old 07/31/08, 7:36 PM   #700
TheNameLessOne
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Spirestone
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
FC(C) is awesome. You'll use it alot. Any time you would move toward a mob in cat form, and its cooldown is up, you'll want to use it. A) It's faster. B) It's frelling cool.

EDIT: BTW... Mewbombs. Oh yes. Not just Mewbombs. Stealth Membombs.
Is it still do the funny position thing where you aren't facing your target half the time?

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Old 07/31/08, 7:48 PM   #701
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
It leaves you facing toward the way you jumped to get to the point just behind the target. Not a big deal if you mouse look, you've got time to change facing while flying through the air.

Rawr!

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Old 07/31/08, 8:46 PM   #702
Shakes
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Nagrand
Originally Posted by tlbj6142 View Post
Ooops! I forgot pounce and ravage. Dang that's quit a few buttons for 1 form.
They can go on your stealth bar, not your cat bar, so they don't count. Anyway, limiting to 12 seems rather arbitrary, I doubt there's many non-druid players with only 12 abilities they could possibly want to use at a time. It seems inevitable that if they're going to add new abilities every expansion eventually something in the default UI has to give (maybe the secondary non-paged bars turned on by default?)

As far as scaling goes, obviously the energy mechanic brings a natural comparison to rogues. But if Ghostcrawler's post is to be believed and the intent is to have a more cat vs bear build, making cat ferals DPS who can tank a bit, shouldn't the comparison be to fury or arms warriors?

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Old 07/31/08, 10:29 PM   #703
Tappin
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Most of the posts here seem related to concerns about dps scaling, arena viability, etc. Personally, I'm more concerned about something else I've noticed:

1) The very real possiblity druid tanks won't scale well due to a) a limited number of stats we care about b) caps for one (maybe 2?) of those stats, c) a lack of itemization / gear availability.
2) A general lack of good tanking gear itemization / availability.

As I see it, we got two big changes to survivability:
- No crushing blows (benefits us more than other tanks).
- No need for defense stat. This would be a huge boon if we could turn all of that item budget into armor, agi or sta, but...

The latter is nice, but it actually worsens problem 1. It gives us an advantage early on, when other tanks are playing catch up on armor and crit immunity. In TBC we wanted defense to crit immunity then armor, sta and agi (dodge and expertise aren't awful). Now we just want armor, sta, and agi (dodge rating and expertise aren't awful). Once we cap armor (very possible, at least for trash), we only care about sta and agi. It's very difficult for us to scale with only 2 stats. Agi may even need to cap (I personally think dodge + miss + parry needs to max at some reasonable number). And, it's hard to itemize gear for a class that only wants 2 stats. It's worse when no other class wants those 2 stats together. Gems and enchants will help a tad, but other tanks have gems and enchants anyway, so...

Making these stats scale better doesn't fix the problem. It just makes us more likely to start OP'd and scale poorly when these few stats cap.

For gear, what gear are we supposed to tank in? Rogue gear has no extra armor or stamina. Tank rings, cloaks, trinkets, and necks will likely include defense, str, parry, block. So druids either tank in sub-optimal gear or be limited to gear designed specifically for ferals (tier gear and other items that would otherwise rot?)

I'd like to see how they plan to give bear tanks gear availability and continuous scaling. Personally, I think we need to have 1-2 more stats that benefit our survivability, even if that means armor and agi are slightly less valuable for bears.

Last edited by Tappin : 07/31/08 at 11:25 PM.

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Old 08/01/08, 12:58 AM   #704
tlbj6142
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Tappin View Post
c) a lack of itemization / gear availability.
2) A general lack of good tanking gear itemization / availability.
Most "real" tanking gear doesn't appear until lvl cap -2 quests/5-mans (78-80) and/or "end-game" crafts. The beta only allows lvl 77, so until we go few weeks with the cap at 80 without good gear, I wouldn't worry about it too much. So much will have changed by then, plus more stuff will leak out about the new game mechanics they seem to be adding to the game. Maybe we won't need "green" armor?

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Old 08/01/08, 1:52 AM   #705
Unity
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<ten>
Khaz'goroth
BC wasn't exactly dripping with tank gear in earlier content but it did have some such as the ring from ramparts and the chest piece from Hellfire which both lasted me a long time. I expect we'll see some added itemisation early in WOTLK so that Druids entering Northrend with 10k armour can get enough survivability to do the job. That or a mechanic change reducing the need for specialist pieces.

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