Valerian

I was more concerned with the intent of that bonus. Its a free 120ish AP which, when you look at the level 80 itemization is going to be a drop in the bucket. There are usually logical reasons to add things to talents. Now you're right, it could just be a small bonus. But it seems about as logical as your example of +5 int being added to the talent.

 

Qutossar

The only logic behind this I can see, is to make us believe this talent is better than it actually is. (60% seems huge and it seems to scale .. at first glance ..)

On the other hand -12% damage is good enough. Thus I agree. There is no logic behind this talent. Talents shouldn't be bloated with stuff that is (almost) meaningless.

 

coredumperror

I really like the "RP" aspect of Mother Bear. Your damage reduction increases depending on how many "cubs" are in your party, helping you to better protect them from the nasty mobs. It's also a very clever way to give ferals our long needed magic mitigation talent without it just being "defensive stance."

On a totally different topic: has the Mangle debuff been fixed in Wrath? The obviously horrible coding that underlies the debuff makes it very finicky and exploitable. I'm hoping they fixed this.

 

Qutossar

Do you like the RP aspect that, for some reason, you are better at defending 4 cubs than 1? And what about the other 20 cubs? Not even from a RP point of view I can like this talent, I think.

Edit: Actually I think it is still way too similar to a (boring) defensive stance.

 

Leviathon

Both talent names are placeholders but that is a fun "RP" way to look at the name. Both the new talents look alright but do need a bit more work since right now they just seem to be talents that were slapped together at the last second.

They made it so Savage Roar disappears upon shifting now.

 

Qutossar

Does it reappear when you reshift to cat? If it doesn't, they just removed the last hope for any form of powershifting. Sad day.

 

Soultrigger

They did, next build it will just keep 100% of cat regen, not going to give any extra 40 energy upon shifting.

 

Leviathon

Powershifting is gone.

 

Knoli

Thanks god it is, i always didnt like it.

But i really care about +int on the arena gear, i mean there is no intelect... i'm not sure the "standart" mana pool is enough... at the moment even my 8k sometimes on the arena isnt enough

Any idea about how to like when you are out of mana?

 

Pumbaa

If you feel you'd like more int, gem/enchant for it.

I really like that int isn't forced on us anymore.

 

Pzychotix

Problem from an itemization stand point is that spending int through gem/enchants is much more expensive than spending int through items that have no int on them.

 

Valerian

This is only true if you socket an item with a stat that already appears on the item. If you're socketing an item with a Stat that ISN'T on the item, it makes no difference. You only "lose" a few stat points worth even if you are socketing with a stat that is already on the piece.

Now I'd agree with them perhaps taking a few stats off the current stats on the gear and making those into int. However, we already have 6 stats on our PvP gear from what I've seen. Blizz generally doesn't split stats much more than this, even if it is beneficial to everyone.

 

Strauss

Perhaps a vain attempt to salvage powershifting in some form, but has anyone been able to take a look [Wolfshead Helm] to see if there's been any changes on it in beta? Is the effect been present or has it been reworked to act like Furor?

 

TheNameLessOne

Going bear form from cat form is way more than -10% damage. Bear is its own draw back already.

These talents are just badly thrown together, short sighted garbage. They don't address the real problem with druid tanking which is scalability.

 

Duilliath

I read it as 15% - a party consists of 5 people. Where was it decided it doesn't count yourself ? 12% and 15% are both nice, though 15% would be closer to the Warrior's 16% mitigation.

Sidenote, 5man parties aren't the only place you can get mind controlled. Just think of Hakkar or Leotheras if you need some examples. Taking 6% more damage as two party members got mind controlled sucks. Do dead people count ?

 

Liar

I'm sorry, what? -12 PERCENT damage taken in Bear form does not scale with the damage you take? If you don't consider that scaling, then what is? I seriously can't believe you just said this.

And yes, going Cat --> Bear is more than a 10% damage done reduction but you seem to happily ignore the fact that it's also a whole lot more damage reduction than 10%. Really, what is your problem with the talent that you feel like you have to make things up like this?

I am taking these numbers from the Druid beta forums and if I am not completely off, aren't there similar talents with the same wording that work like this (I'm not sure about this though)?
Also, since I have seen it thrown around a few times now: 16% spell damage mitigation is not 16% mitigation. It only affects spells. Warriors still only take 10% less damage from melee attacks and Mother Bear easily trumps that at 12% and if it is 15%, then even more so.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Kieran

The way I see it, the Druid himself is not considered a friendly target when assessing Damage Reduction. Of course that mechanic only serves to confuse people until it can actually be tested. Mother Bear is still a placeholder talent in the most recent build from what I gathered.

Also a question: slogging through the official beta forums with all its slap in the face crap I found out the agility to dodge conversion at level 80 for us Druids hovers around 40 points of agility for one one percent dodge rating. So could someone tell me how much agility we need come expansion to increase our critical strike chance by one percent? I was unable to find any reliable info about this.

 

rpnguyen

Mother Bear in a party of 5 be 15% based on the current wording. Then again Blizzard is known to really screw up their tooltips once in a while. 2/2 Improved Sprint "100% but not really 100%" comes to mind.

 

seminarca

At the moment, since Mother Bear hasn't been implemented, we can't really tell for sure whether it's 12% or 15% (i.e. whether it includes the Druid themselves in the party member count or not). So people are just assuming either way. I'll post on the beta forums to ask, but we may not have a response until later since it's the weekend.

On losing buffs after dropping Cat Form: as of the last build, you also lose Dash after dropping Cat Form.

 

Cuer

At this time, the helm in beta still provides the same effect. Presumably if it ends up being too powerful as a powershifting tool, it will get nerfed, just like all the other lower level gear that was too powerful and got changed. And thankfully so; it would be a bit odd if a level 40 item was still wanted at level 80.

 

nightcrowler

83.3 agility = 1% crit.

 

TheNameLessOne

I said talents, not talent.

Natural reaction is the truly piece of trash that they just tacked on so a bears mitigation would be roughly the same as the other tanks at entry level. Its just one more in the laundry list of shitty, poorly thought out short term talents/abilities/hacks they have done. Serious what other tank can claim 14% avoidance completely naked? It still does absolutely nothing to address long term scalability. Great you can be roughly the same going into Naxx, good luck coming out.

As for mother bear, its the attack power bonus that is a bad, none scaling pile. It serves no purpose at all, do something else that is actually useful. The damage reduction being dependent on number of people in your group is just silly mechanic that is prone to too many questions and bugs.

Nothing they have done has actually made a druid want either rogue gear or the tanking accessories (ring, clock, neck, trinkets) that the other tanks want. No other spec in the game is being designed around getting terrible itemization and repeatedly getting none scaling numbers tacted on to try and cover up the deficiencies.

 

Anaram

Uh what are you trying to say here?

Both warrior&paladin get 5% dodge and 5% parry from talents. With this set of talents druid gets 10% dodge from talents.

 

Selmarix

Indeed, what ferals need is something like this:

Tough Hide: Your crits have a 33/66/100% chance to grant you the tough hide buff. This buff absorbs x damage, scales with AP.

Improved Tough Hide: Damage absorbed by your tough hide buff increases your armor by the amount absorbed for 10s.

 

TheNameLessOne

Bear form comes with a baseline 5% dodge that they tacted on cause the avoidance nerf was deemed to severe.