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Old 08/09/08, 12:26 AM   #931
Krag
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
Rend and Tear really feels like cat talent to me right now. Yes, it will give maul some extra damage/threat, but we'll get double that from Savage Fury now (without any situational requirements) and I expect that the "causes a high amount of threat" will mean a static threat value and the extra Maul damage won't be as important relatively (I doubt they'll go with a threat multiplier on Maul again seeing how it turned out last time).

I don't really have a problem with OoC only proccing from auto-attacks. It'll mean we won't get free swings in situations where we are queuing up Maul, but these are normally high rage situations where free swings aren't really important. This of course might change depending on how high threat Maul is comparatively to other skills, but I expect we'll follow about the same tanking pattern as now.

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Old 08/09/08, 3:43 AM   #932
Ja7us
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Krag View Post
Rend and Tear really feels like cat talent to me right now. Yes, it will give maul some extra damage/threat, but we'll get double that from Savage Fury now (without any situational requirements) and I expect that the "causes a high amount of threat" will mean a static threat value and the extra Maul damage won't be as important relatively (I doubt they'll go with a threat multiplier on Maul again seeing how it turned out last time).

I don't really have a problem with OoC only proccing from auto-attacks. It'll mean we won't get free swings in situations where we are queuing up Maul, but these are normally high rage situations where free swings aren't really important. This of course might change depending on how high threat Maul is comparatively to other skills, but I expect we'll follow about the same tanking pattern as now.
There is precedent (notably, windfury totem) for on-next-swing abilities to be counted as auto-attacks for the purpose of procs. I believe he was referring to the fact that you no longer get 3 chances to proc OOC per swipe.

Edit: From MMO-Champion:




They're a fair sight better for mitigation than anything we have now, that's for sure.

Last edited by Ja7us : 08/09/08 at 3:53 AM.

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Old 08/09/08, 5:27 AM   #933
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
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Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Ja7us View Post
There is precedent (notably, windfury totem) for on-next-swing abilities to be counted as auto-attacks for the purpose of procs. I believe he was referring to the fact that you no longer get 3 chances to proc OOC per swipe.
Probably had to be done to be able to give us Enchants/Procs in forms.

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Old 08/09/08, 9:18 AM   #934
tlbj6142
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Krag View Post
Rend and Tear really feels like cat talent to me right now. Yes, it will give maul some extra damage/threat, but we'll get double that from Savage Fury now (without any situational requirements)
The way I see it, the changes to Savage Fury neutered Rend and Tear; thereby, giving us 3 more talent points. Now I can even take 1/3 IW and still get 3/3 in Intensity (though I might try to live without it and pickup ILotP and 2/3 IW).


So, R&T is just a PvP talent?

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Old 08/09/08, 10:21 AM   #935
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by tlbj6142 View Post
So, R&T is just a PvP talent?
That highly depends on your priorities - if you don't need IW and iLotP it is an alternative to get R&T, it WILL increase cat damage and bear threat, just not by as much as other talents.

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Old 08/09/08, 10:28 AM   #936
Scurn
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Darkspear
With the recent changes to the big 3 warrior abilities all tanks have a comparable shield wall besides druids.

Warriors - Shield Wall. 5min cooldown that reduces damage taken by 50% for 12 seconds.
Paladin - Divine Protection. 5min cooldown that reduces damage taken by 50% for 12 seconds but increases attack speed by 50%.
Deathknight - Icebound Fortitude. 1min cooldown that reduces damage taken by 50% and provides stun immunity for 12 seconds.

I think it's pretty obvious that Blizzard considers this kind of reactive skill to be too powerful for only one tank to have and druids will probably get something similar. The straightforward change would be to finally allow barkskin in feral forms with increased cooldown and probably effectiveness.

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Old 08/09/08, 11:47 AM   #937
StormGust
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
<->
Arthas (EU)
Originally Posted by Scurn View Post
The straightforward change would be to finally allow barkskin in feral forms with increased cooldown and probably effectiveness.
They will probably do that, because barkskin, with the recent changes to spellpushback, isn't as needed as it was before :>

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Old 08/09/08, 11:52 AM   #938
giansm
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by StormGust View Post
They will probably do that, because barkskin, with the recent changes to spellpushback, isn't as needed as it was before :>
Barkskin is still very useful to PvE resto. It can be cast in tree form and the 20% damage reduction is very nice if you know you'll be taking some damage soon.

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Old 08/09/08, 12:09 PM   #939
chetal
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
<Og>
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Mowen View Post
Judging by the changes to druid threat mechanics, and taking into account that maul now will get extra damage out of when mangle is up and that rend and tear will mean maul gets extra damage on a bleeding target, it seems that Blizzard means for Maul to be a big part of the feral tanking rotation. With the reduced cool down of mangle through talents and the fact we get 2 new ranks of lacerate..

Something along the lines of mangle, lacerate, lacerate, mangle, lacerate, lacerate, maul repeat.
sorry but you must be bad.

if you were not already using maul every time it is up you are bad. it does not need to be put into rotation, it is an on next hit effect. so pro druids have these 2 macros:

/cast swipe
/cast maul

/cast lacerate
/cast maul

spam those and mangle every CD for maximum threat. If you have good gear swipe is always better, even on one mob.


The talents as they are now are going to increase our already retardedly high threat by alot. I do a constant 1.9k TPS while raiding in sunwell gear. I just don't see how they are going to leave some of the stuff the way it is.

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Old 08/09/08, 12:29 PM   #940
Scurn
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Darkspear
Originally Posted by StormGust View Post
They will probably do that, because barkskin, with the recent changes to spellpushback, isn't as needed as it was before :>
The pushback changes are nice but pve ferals want to use barkskin in forms for the damage reduction not the pushback elimination. With every other tanking class getting a 50% reduction on a one per fight cooldown it seems to suggest druids will get something similar.

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Old 08/09/08, 10:18 PM   #941
Kazanir
Mr. Sandman
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Krag View Post
I don't really have a problem with OoC only proccing from auto-attacks. It'll mean we won't get free swings in situations where we are queuing up Maul, but these are normally high rage situations where free swings aren't really important. This of course might change depending on how high threat Maul is comparatively to other skills, but I expect we'll follow about the same tanking pattern as now.
This is wrong. Maul can proc Omen of Clarity -- just tested it with multiple instances -- as if it were a white attack.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

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Old 08/10/08, 5:15 AM   #942
desiato
Banned
 
Murloc Mage
 
Test
Originally Posted by Kazanir View Post
This is wrong. Maul can proc Omen of Clarity -- just tested it with multiple instances -- as if it were a white attack.
good good. makes sense since it is essentially a boosted / replaced white attack.

with regards to shield wall, recklessness etc. unless they tone down recklessness to just a few attacks id be a bit annoyed, but i can see barkskin being castable in forms with 25%+ damage reduction for 10 seconds on a minute reduction, maybe 2. might well be all we have if we're going to take a big slice of magic damage =(

beserk cooldown needs to come down too

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Old 08/10/08, 2:36 PM   #943
Khanus
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Kazanir View Post
What you're essentially asking for is to be a terrible choice for a progression-oriented raid group. That is exactly what they have said they will not be pursuing with the feral tree.
Could you elaborate a bit? I find that I am incredibly useful in a progression group. If a trash pull goes bad, I can pick up a loose mob, add some healing to the tank, and with recent changes, provide a fair bit of control. To me, I'm there BECAUSE we're learning.

Granted, my guild isn't full-on into T6 yet, so if it works different there then I stand corrected, but from everything I've done thus far, I've been a great use to help learn stuff.

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Old 08/10/08, 2:44 PM   #944
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
...my guild isn't full-on into T6 yet...
You just proved his point.

Rawr!

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Old 08/10/08, 3:13 PM   #945
Alandriel
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Khanus View Post
Granted, my guild isn't full-on into T6 yet, so if it works different there then I stand corrected, but from everything I've done thus far, I've been a great use to help learn stuff.
(on progression)

If you're sup-par dps, but you can pick up a loose mob on trash, you will be sat on bosses if they don't need you tanking.

If you're sub-par tanking AND dps, you won't have a slot in a progression guild.

Battle rez and innervate are bad reasons to justify a slot in a raid, because that is assuming you can take a less-powerful class and make up for a rogue/warlock/mage being dumb and a healer not being mana efficient.

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