Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 88

Niton · 08/28/08, 1:03 PM

Powershifting was confirmed as out by a blue poster a little bit earlier.
WoW Forums -> Energy Regen Change - Intended?

"Powershifting" was never an intended mechanic. However, it has become so prevalent among Feral Druids that if we did not eliminate it, we would have to balance around it. So, this change effectively eliminates the possibility to gain extra energy regeneration through the Furor talent. For the intended use: shift out, heal self a bit or Innervate or Tranquility or Rebirth, go back to Cat Form, it will work as well as it ever has.

mydhrin · 08/28/08, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by Niton

Powershifting was confirmed as out by a blue poster a little bit earlier.
WoW Forums -> Energy Regen Change - Intended?

Here is the other part of the post:

The Cat Form energy regeneration mechanics you are seeing in the current beta build are a bug resulting from "powershifting" being partially fixed. We changed energy regeneration on Cat Form so that it occurs continuously no matter what form the Druid is in. However, the second half of the change did not make it in before the data pull for the build. When Furor triggers on shifting to Cat Form, your energy will be set to the maximum of its current value and 40. So, if you are over 40, it goes to 40. If you are less than 40, you gain no energy, but keep the amount you gained through normal regeneration. If Furor does not trigger or you do not have the talent, energy is set to 0.

Is it me or does this mean that when we shift to cat form we will not have 100 energy if it was more then 10 seconds out of form? Does this special mechanic only apply when we are in combat?

Also, with this new information, i believe they REALLY need to change the furor talent to something new, because now it is pretty sure It will not be a viable talent for ferals, even if we consider bear rage...

tlbj6142 · 08/28/08, 1:21 PM

Edit: Removed duplicate quote, but still have a question....

I'm a bit confused. Does this mean, for questing/leveling, we are better off without Furor? And now it has little use in end-game PvE (for cats)?

Promethius · 08/28/08, 1:21 PM

The post confuses me somewhat. So the natural energy regen in any form caps out at 40 as well? Or does having furor actually hurt your ability ito store more than 40 energy if you were out of form for over 4 sec? Either way, it looks like the marginal utility of the talent has been reduced to almost only powershifting when it comes to cat form.

mydhrin · 08/28/08, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Promethius

The post confuses me somewhat. So the natural energy regen in any form caps out at 40 as well? Or does having furor actually hurt your ability ito store more than 40 energy if you were out of form for over 4 sec? Either way, it looks like the marginal utility of the talent has been reduced to almost only powershifting when it comes to cat form.

Even there, the usage of furor for powershifting is useless because it will never give you extra energy. Like they said, they want to get rid of the powershifting phenomenon. I'm in agreement with this, but I hope that they intend to change the Furor talent to something more useful like a STR or AGI ratio buff or something of the sort.

loos · 08/28/08, 1:25 PM

I'm a little confused on hit rating. We've all been complaining that with all the new rogue gear we're going to go over the cap for hit rating. I thought that this meant that our hit cap was still going to be 142, but after reading on the WotLK Wiki forums and playing with Tossk's calculator it looks like we need > 295 hit rating to remove all misses (not dodges or parries). The base value explanations are confusing to me and I was wondering if someone else could explain what the current (in beta) hit cap is for druids.

slant · 08/28/08, 1:27 PM

It is a bit confusing until you read it a couple of times. I believe what this means is:

- You're always regenerating energy, in and out of cat form
- If you have 40 or more energy in humanoid form, do not have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 0 energy
- If you have 40 or more energy in humanoid form, do have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 40 energy
- If you have less than 40 energy in humanoid form, do not have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 0 energy
- If you have less than 40 energy in humanoid form, do have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will retain that energy. So if you had 23 energy in humanoid form, you will have 23 energy in cat form.

With this change powershifting is no longer beneficial but furor is still useful for its intended purpose. It is very heavily PVP-weighted now, though. I'm not sure I'd bother taking it for PvE.

tenshirou · 08/28/08, 1:28 PM

The way I read that was, furor can only give you up to 40 energy. The amount you get is 40 minus the energy you have regened, aka, if you are out of cat form for more than 4 seconds, it does nothing. But yeah, really confusing post.

Edit: Reading slant's post, I think he has it right.

mydhrin · 08/28/08, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by loos

I'm a little confused on hit rating. We've all been complaining that with all the new rogue gear we're going to go over the cap for hit rating. I thought that this meant that our hit cap was still going to be 142, but after reading on the WotLK Wiki forums and playing with Tossk's calculator it looks like we need > 295 hit rating to remove all misses (not dodges or parries). The base value explanations are confusing to me and I was wondering if someone else could explain what the current (in beta) hit cap is for druids.

No, it should still be 142 hit rating for 2 reasons:

1st -> I believe they didn't change the ratio of hit rating to hit %.

2nd -> No matter if your 70, 71, or 80, the hit percentage for a mob the same level as you (or 3 level higher for bosses) doesn't change, so it stays at 9% (if I remember correctly).

I may be mistaken, but I don't think so...

Feorthas · 08/28/08, 1:29 PM

This change will cause furor to behave in an identical manner to how it behaves in live and it's pretty clearly worded as well. It literally says "[max] furor will give you a max of 40 energy on a shift to cat and none will give you 0". Nothing else will change.

loos · 08/28/08, 1:35 PM

This also just in. 2T4 proc will be removed by level 80. It starts at a 4% chance to proc at 70 (same as currently), drops by 0.4% each level, ending up with a 0% chance to proc at 80.

Astrylian · 08/28/08, 1:35 PM

No, Jimmythenumber's post is indeed contradictory. Either way, it's a change from live. I posted, asking for clarification.

Promethius · 08/28/08, 1:35 PM

Edit: Slant's post appears correct. Powershifting is now impossible. Furor just simply sets an energy cap at 40 energy retained when shifting into cat.

snakedance · 08/28/08, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by slant

It is a bit confusing until you read it a couple of times. I believe what this means is:

- You're always regenerating energy, in and out of cat form
- If you have 40 or more energy in humanoid form, do not have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 0 energy
- If you have 40 or more energy in humanoid form, do have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 40 energy
- If you have less than 40 energy in humanoid form, do not have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will have 0 energy
- If you have less than 40 energy in humanoid form, do have the furor talent, and shift to cat, you will retain that energy. So if you had 23 energy in humanoid form, you will have 23 energy in cat form.

With this change powershifting is no longer beneficial but furor is still useful for its intended purpose.

That's my understanding. Its closest comparison is to Stance Mastery.

If it's also true that Feral Charge is now rage-free, the biggest general benefit to Furor will be instant Bash. Being able to hang on to some energy is still powerful in contexts where you actually need to shift frequently (i.e. PVP), but I think Furor has gone from a must-have talent in general to a must-have PVP talent. For PVE ferals, I think Imp MotW and Nature's Focus are now also a pretty good choice.

thedopefishlives · 08/28/08, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Promethius

I must have misread. All the change does is revert Furor to what it does on live. If you have Furor you'll be at 40 energy when you shift regardless of the scenario, if you don't have Furor or don't take full points and don't get the proc you start at 0 energy. The energy regen in any form other than cat basically doesn't do anything, which makes me wonder why it was even implemented.

I think he meant "min(current_energy, 40)" which would produce the results described above.