*Everything* you do while in Bear form is multiplied by the bear multiplier. Swipe's threat is nothing special; it's just plain [threat = damage] (which is then multiplied by the bear multiplier).

Swipe should not overtake lacerate for single target threat, because likely its not going to hit multiple times on a single target anymore. This means for 1-2 mob packs swipe shouldn't be as effective as a threat gen ability as it is now (which is good, you have to change up your style instead of mindlessly mashing one button).

Furtheremore you always want to keep lacerate up on the target that you're mauling because of the massive bonus it provides maul if you have rend and tear, providing there are no other bleeders in the raid. Currently while tanking maul is doing 40ish% of my total damage output depending on spec.

Swipe did never hit the same target multiple times, the discussion has always been a single hit of swipe versus lacerate on a single mob. I don't know the initial numbers of LK but if they are anywhere near those of BC, lacerate is going to draw the short stick if swipe gets its aggro multiplier (back).

Of course you want to keep up lacerate for the bleed buff (and to benefit from the non-trivial dps a rolling lacerate provides) - but the rest of the time you might want to use swipe instead.

Maybe I'm remembering something else then. Didn't swipe have an additional threat modifier long ago that was nerfed?

Sorry, I must have had old or bad information. Still, I would rather they buffed the threat component of swipe to match consecrate and nerfed the damage component right out of the box rather than having other classes up in arms over our aoe damage. Although, pally tanks do pretty well on the damage meters in instances with alot of aoe pulls.

Swipe has never hit the same target multiple times. Where are people getting all these crazy ideas about how Swipe works all of a sudden?

I believe that swipe had some threat component very early on in TBC before the Great Bear Nerf. It doesn't now. Lacerate does, but swipe is better as it scales better with AP. At least at higher levels of AP it is.

I recall seeing something about the threat caused by the lacerate bleed being increased. Does anyone have any numbers on this? Or any testing to show what the new "breakpoint" on Swipe vs Lacerate is?

Swipe had a 1.75 multiplier a long time ago. Lacerate is being changed to 50% threat on initial hit, 50% threat on dot tick.

Skinning is only worth it if you want the leather. The bonuses for all gathering professions are less impressive then the ones for crafting professions.

From Wowwiki:

Don't remember where I got the other information and I can't find it now.

The swipe change is pretty disapointing to be honest. I would have much rather had something that made bears get another button to tank with which could have added more to their effect in pvp. The buff to swipe hitting an infinite amount of targets will take some getting used to because mobs like to spread out around a target and as the amount of targets increase we'll probably have issues with having to constantly move around to have the mobs disperse themselves infront of us again.

And I remember a blue post mentioning bears will have something to give them a way to deal with daze, was that ever followed up on?

That was supposed to be a part of SotF. Not entirely sure that did get implemented.

I honestly cant recall geting dazed in the last 4 levles as a feral in beta. I do know I got dazed off my mount a few times when I spent a level as boomkin but dispite runing through ton's of stuff as feral never goten dazed off my mount. Its a bit harder to notice in combat sometimes as often you dont need to move around much while tanking unless something is going wrong. Only times I recall geting dazed on an instance run was when my nub hunter guildmate forgot to turn off aspect of daze your party. its possible they tied daze immunity into SOTF as on live I get dazed quite frequently because I have to get half my crit imune from resil.

I just tested this on beta. With 3/3 SotF, I sat with a higher level mob attacking me from behind for several minutes, in my DPS gear with no defense, and I never got dazed.

Can you repeat the test with 0/3 SotF please? =p

Also, were you in Bear Form for this test? If so, can you also try in Cat and Caster forms both with and without SotF?

Hi there,

I'm currently working on a Feral PvE DPS spec for my main character but doubts remains about some talents. Here's my current result : WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

Do you think this type of build seems viable for a solo / raid dps purpose or should I swap some points to be more effective ?

Personally, I'd spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for pve dps. Feral instinct is basically worthless for pve cat--I have never had a problem with mobs detecting me while stealthing in resto spec or as rogue with no MoD, and of course the stealth bonus does nothing for raids. Brutal Impact, while rather nice for soloing, is nearly worthless for raids--the only time I ever spec it is for M'uru and I don't even always bother. Very few fights (at least in TBC) allow use of stuns, and as a cat of course you only can stun out of stealth, making a fight where you could use bash cost you at least three seconds of dps (shift bear, bash, shift cat). I don't see much reason to go 2/3 infected wounds; I suppose the snare could be useful for fleeing-type mobs when soloing, but 2/3 is pretty worthless for raiding. If you need to apply the debuff for your raid, you need 3/3, and if someone else is applying it, you don't need any points.

I haven't seen any math on how good FB is fully talented, but it's certainly a winner for soloing (pounce->mangle->shred->FB will blow things up very effectively), so I took 5/5 Feral Aggression. If FB is totally worthless in raids, I'd probably dump that and pick up the second point in nurturing instincts, survival instincts, maybe primal tenacity or brutal impact. If it's competitive with rip (even if only at exactly 35 energy), those five points are stuck.

That's accurate.

As noted, everything gets the bear multiplier.

Yes, and it also had its damage increased by Savage Fury, which was changed as well.

I thought it was worth noting (or perhaps bragging) that I surpassed 10k AP today in beta, 10,292 in fact. I was dpsing in a 5 man heroic with an enhance shaman in group with unleashed rage up and strength/agility totem down. I had a 5 point savage roar running, and dps trinket activated... not certain if the prot tank had cshout or bshout up though.

The reason I mention this is because I was in BC beta back when my warlock was my main. Not long after BC came out - when most were about mid Kara level, there was talking of a 1000 spell damage club, and I remember how proud I was when I reached it. Reaching 10k today made me wonder which tier of content we'll be in when we can reach the 10k unbuffed AP club.

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Solo. :P Savage Roar is :secks:. It's definitely a very functional alternative/equivalent to Slice and Dice.

Edit: To save some time, that was with MotW, Shard of Contempt and the new badge 1000ap proc up. Idol of Terror faded a second earlier or it'd be another ~100AP higher

As if its not convoluted enough I was just wondering does Genesis effect our bleeds? Not sure 5% more dmg on bleeds would be worth it just curious becuase the tooltip reads about all periodic dmg, it could become part of a pvp build though if that is the case and add a little extra to our heals in pvp.