Elitist Jerks Restoration WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion

 07/29/08, 12:38 PM #166 Blackpatch Great Tiger     Altpatch Tauren Druid   No WoW Account I didn't see the math explicitly worked out in the thread so I worked it out myself. Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere. The proc rate of Replenish (15%) and the structure of Rejuvenation (4 ticks in 12 seconds) means that a given Rejuvenation has just under a 48% chance to proc one or more Replenish effects. The chances of procing a given number of Replenish effects off a single Rejuvenation are: $0 Replenishes: 0.52200625= 0.85^4 \times $\left( \begin{array}{c} 4 \\ 0 \\ \end{array} \right)$$ $1 Replenish: 0.368475= 0.85^3 \times 0.15 \times $\left( \begin{array}{c} 4 \\ 1 \\ \end{array} \right)$$ $2 Replenishes: 0.0975375= 0.85^2 \times 0.15^2 \times $\left( \begin{array}{c} 4 \\ 2 \\ \end{array} \right)$$ $3 Replenishes: 0.011475= 0.85 \times 0.15^3 \times $\left( \begin{array}{c} 4 \\ 3 \\ \end{array} \right)$$ $4 Replenishes: 0.00050625= 0.15^4 \times $\left( \begin{array}{c} 4 \\ 4 \\ \end{array} \right)$$ $0.52200625 \times 0 + 0.368475 \times 1 + 0.0975375 \times 2 + 0.011475 \times 3 + 0.00050625 \times 4= 0.6$ which means that although a given single Rejuvenation has just under a 48% chance to proc one or more Replenish effects, each Rejuvenation gives 60% of the Replenish effect on average. This means that in the long term (yes, I know fights don't last forever) Replenish can be thought of as: Your Rejuvenation spell also restores 0.5 Energy, 0.25 Rage, 0.1% Mana or 0.5 Runic Power per second. I don't know too much about energy/rage/RP generation rates, but 10 mana per second (MPS) on 10k mana seems like a nice buff to deliver with Rank 1 Rejuvenations that cost 1.6 MPS in ToL. (MPS will probably replace MP5 as a stat thanks to the new beta regen change.) Now, if Rank 1 Rejuvenation works, then using anything higher for Replenish purposes is silly. If Rank 1 Rejuvenation doesn't work, Replenish gets bad in a hurry. It seems a little inelegant to me to create a high-level raiding mechanic that relies on 1.0s GCD Rank 1 Rejuvenations, and Blizz has a history of deprecating the use of very low-rank spells in raiding environments. For this reason, I don't think we've seen the final version of Replenish quite yet. I can't comment on what I think this final version will be, as I'm not experienced with the mechanics and balancing of other party-regen abilities. Note: Kortar informed me that I made this way too complex, and I did. The expected number of Replenish procs per Rejuvenate is just the number of Rejuve ticks times the proc rate, so 4*0.15 = 0.6. Last edited by Blackpatch : 07/29/08 at 5:47 PM. Reason: :shobon: CONSERVE YOUR RAGE AND LUST
07/30/08, 9:55 AM   #167
Brinas
Von Kaiser

Orc Death Knight

The Scryers
 Originally Posted by Bael Glyph of Healing Touch - Decreases the cast time of Healing Touch by 1.5 sec., the mana cost by -25% and the amount healed by -50%.
This would be great for pvp. It would be a nice counter to death knights and degeneration.

07/30/08, 10:13 AM   #168
Akston
Piston Honda

Human Mage

Thunderlord
 Originally Posted by Brinas This would be great for pvp. It would be a nice counter to death knights and degeneration.
Depending on how it's calculated and the coefficient of it vs. nourish there is a good chance it really would hardly be better than nourish even without a hot on your target. Nourish is also way cheaper. We will have to wait and see how the HT glyph is actually calculated but as of right now it really really doesn't make very much sense.

 07/30/08, 10:20 AM #169 Cube Piston Honda   Cuberen Night Elf Druid   Dark Iron Brinas: I think that's what the HT glyph is aiming for. However, I still find the glyph's usefulness questionable, especially when you consider that it nerfs our NS+max HT combination, effectively removing the biggest "oh shit" button we have.
07/30/08, 10:24 AM   #170
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Blackpatch Your Rejuvenation spell also restores 0.5 Energy, 0.25 Rage, 0.1% Mana or 0.5 Runic Power per second.
I came to the same conclusion over on the Tree thread, and it was pointed that we don't know whether Replenish can proc on a full-HP target.

 07/30/08, 10:39 AM #171 Soultrigger Von Kaiser   Soultarius Tauren Druid   Warsong Probably it will, somehow they are testing allowing just one mana pot per combat... So probably our rejuv among others classes buffs will work as the mana regen for the raid... We shall see ^^
 07/30/08, 6:54 PM #172 Benita Don Flamenco   Benita Tauren Druid   Dentarg (EU) I tested with letting rejuv continuisly tick on the tank. There were no 5 rage spikes out of combat, i couldn't really tell mid combat though. Doesnt look too good for that talent to be taken into a normal resto specc, with Flourish i hardly had time to cast rejuv.
 07/31/08, 3:40 AM #173 Akston Piston Honda   Akston Human Mage   Thunderlord Since we are sort of on the topic of inscriptions how exactly do they work? Do you have to have the profession in order to use the glyphs or are the glyphs like enchants that can be sold/traded to other people?
 07/31/08, 4:12 AM #174 Nitz Don Flamenco     Nuwu Draenei Shaman   Ysondre (EU) You have 6 glyphs sockets in your spellbook (2 major, 2 minor, 2 lesser, where major and minor drastically change the way a spell works, lesser being cosmetic or fun aspects), Inscription appears to have a Glyph Mastery allowing you to have one other Glyph. Glyphs can be sold through the AH or trade windows.
07/31/08, 5:26 AM   #175
Findy
Glass Joe

Night Elf Druid

Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
 Originally Posted by Bael Does anyone else get the feeling that choosing Glyphs is going to be more difficult than socketing the right gems or selecting enchants?
The implication of choosing one Restoration Druid Glyph over another is really more than just a min-maxing choice. It is very much related to your style of play.

For example:
1. a Resto druid using mainly Regrowths and Rejuvenations for healing would benefit more from the Swiftmend and Regrowth Glyphs.
2. Whereas a Resto druid whose playstyle is more oriented towards maintaining a Lifebloom rotation on as many players as possible would benefit greatly from the Swiftmend and Lifebloom Glyphs (where not consuming a Rejuvenation or Regrowth buff would mean he doesn't have to waste an extra GCD to reapply those HoTs).

In fact, most Resto Druid Glyphs seem to point towards Glyph "specs" oriented towards Blizzard's goal to have raid healing and single target healing viable talent specs with particular Glyph combinations offering the player the possibility to tweak their spells for more synergy with their playing style.

 07/31/08, 3:20 PM #176 Montegomery Aloof Aggravator     Sutiru Undead Warrior   No WoW Account I'm a little concerned about the Regrowth Glyph as it seems superfluous with the introduction of Nourish. Similarly the Healing Touch Glyph seems superfluous as we have both Nourish and Regrowth. The only Glyphs that seem universally appealing to me are the Lifebloom and Swiftmend Glyphs, and the latter of those two can be amazing or eh depending on how time was left on the HoT to be consumed anyway.
07/31/08, 4:16 PM   #177
Playered
Soda Popinski

Tauren Druid

Twisting Nether (EU)
 Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade I'm a little concerned about the Regrowth Glyph as it seems superfluous with the introduction of Nourish. Similarly the Healing Touch Glyph seems superfluous as we have both Nourish and Regrowth. The only Glyphs that seem universally appealing to me are the Lifebloom and Swiftmend Glyphs, and the latter of those two can be amazing or eh depending on how time was left on the HoT to be consumed anyway.
I'm rather impressed with the Regrowth one but then again I have been a 'fan' of Regrowth for a very long time and thus am slightly biased towards the spell itself, especially here where it finally unleashes some potential the spell has had for a long time.

Not only does it provide the extra 'oomph' that I feel the spell lacks it provides an incentive to utilize the spell more and maintain a good dosage of the HoT on most of the raid.
This will also allow Nourish to have a much higher chance of using its +20% bonus on non-tank targets where required as not many other HoTs are likely to remain on people long enough to offer stability of it.

Naturally the Lifebloomers will be excited at the Lifebloom one especially combined with GoTEm which will allow so many stronger rotations and offer great assistance against latency in their role.

They seem to provide some allowance of role adaption while not actually changing spec.. providing some much needed deviation from the classic tank & raid healer set assignments if people are truly better at the opposite role.

07/31/08, 4:48 PM   #178
Montegomery
Aloof Aggravator

Sutiru

No WoW Account
 Originally Posted by Playered I'm rather impressed with the Regrowth one but then again I have been a 'fan' of Regrowth for a very long time and thus am slightly biased towards the spell itself, especially here where it finally unleashes some potential the spell has had for a long time. Not only does it provide the extra 'oomph' that I feel the spell lacks it provides an incentive to utilize the spell more and maintain a good dosage of the HoT on most of the raid. This will also allow Nourish to have a much higher chance of using its +20% bonus on non-tank targets where required as not many other HoTs are likely to remain on people long enough to offer stability of it.
I still see a fundamental problem here.

Obviously your go to spell when unexpected, non-trivial damage to a single target occurs is Regrowth. In current circumstances this occasionally means throwing Regrowth on someone who is already under the effect of the HoT, in which case the Glyph is useful.

However it's effectively serving the same function as Nourish with the Glyph. It's a heal cast when Regrowth's HoT is already on the target. Granted there are minor differences, one is faster, one perpetuates a HoT, one works on a range of HoTs while the other works on only one, but overall the one is now impinging on the other.

Which leaves us with two possibilities. If Regrowth is significantly better than Nourish in this role using the Glyph, Nourish serves little or no purpose. If, on the other hand, Regrowth is still inferior or at best equal in the role, then the Glyph serves little or no purpose.

 07/31/08, 4:59 PM #179 Cube Piston Honda   Cuberen Night Elf Druid   Dark Iron There also isn't any nourish glyph yet, or at least, I have not seen one. That could tip the scale in Nourish's favor, depending on the effect.
 07/31/08, 5:07 PM #180 Blackpatch Great Tiger     Altpatch Tauren Druid   No WoW Account Based on the lack of Nourish and Flourish glyphs in the preview, and the Healing Touch glyph's considerable similarity to Nourish, I have the feeling that the glyph preview was written before druids entered their current state. CONSERVE YOUR RAGE AND LUST

 Elitist Jerks Restoration WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion

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