Restoration WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 21

Dioneirra · 09/06/08, 2:55 AM

Taking a look at the datamined Druid Restoration Set from Naxx 10 shows a somewhat interesting development in itemization. While Set Boni are missing right now (as usual), there is quite some haste and spellcrit present on this set, even in socket boni. This will surely lead to conflicts with Gift of the Earthmother, if they keep the GCD at 1 sec minimum.

Could someone in the beta provide the new stats for the changed Healing Touch please? I only see the notice about reduced cost and base healing, but no numbers for now.

Lord BEEF · 09/06/08, 4:01 AM

Rank 15 Healing Touch, untalented 1153 mana. Heals for 3761 - 4440. With 1430 spellpower heals for about 6400 health.

Fully talented it's 938 mana. Heals for an average of 8100 health.

Lord BEEF · 09/06/08, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by Playered

I'm estimating a total of 8750 healed over 10 sec for 730 mana at 80 with 1350 spell power & all associated talents in ToL, hopefully someone else can confirm who has an actual level 80 :P

I got 8748 healed over 10 sec for 726 mana at 1432 spellpower. You were really close.

And yes, flourish is ridiculous currently. It's far too effective, especially for the mana cost.

Tyvi · 09/06/08, 9:44 AM

Maybe I am thinking too simple about this but what exactly would speak against making Haste have an additional effect on HoTs and DoTs apart from the GCD reduction? Like increasing the effective HPS/DPS by X% where X is the amount of Haste you have. That way it never caps out.

Njial · 09/06/08, 11:37 AM

Blizzard doesn't seem opposed to that kind of idea. They are working on something similar with crit and affliction locks.

Playered · 09/06/08, 11:40 AM

Haste as a mechanic is fine normally - GoTE causes problems and should be adjusted to stop doing it.

Crit just requires something extra in order to allow it to prosper.

thethain · 09/06/08, 12:43 PM

GoTE is just too much to be honest. It Removes haste from the two spells spammed most often by druids. (altho if flourish makes it in as is, It will probably be equal in healing if not times cast due to it affecting 5 at once)

Gift of the Earthmother - If your target has less than 2 of your lifeblooms, your lifebloom has a 33[100]% chance to apply an additional lifebloom on the target but have an additional cooldown.

Cooldown is = your Global cooldown. IE it casts both lifeblooms for you, so unless your just an idiot you can cast something else between the lifeblooms. Would be no doubt more powerful and would eliminate 1 button spamming in raids.

Mana refund can be put in a 2pt talent beside it.

Abundance - Your Healing Touch and Nourish spells refund 2[4]% of their base cost for each healing over time effect on the target.

For crit I would say revise Replenish to be affected by crit

Replenish - Your Rejuvenation has a chance equal to 50[150]% of your spell critical strike chance to restore Energy/Rage/Runic Power/Mana each time it heals your target.

Alternately - Could add a different form of usage of crit or both
Wild Growth - When your healing over time effect heals a target theres is chance equal to your spell critical strike chance that it will heal an additional nearby target for 33[100]% of the amount healed.

Anaram · 09/06/08, 2:44 PM

I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that restoration spell mana costs will be revisited.

That said, any ideas on what's going on with mark of the wild? They first included the old 35% improved motw bonus in base values of old ranks and then still kept the +40% talent.

Maax · 09/06/08, 4:29 PM

Nature's Splendor has been adjusted in the latest patch to add a flat 1/2/3 seconds to all HoTs/DoTs. The last 2 ranks are bugged and say 2%/3%, but they are also adding 1 second each.

So compared to the 10%/20%/30% version:

Spell                  Base    Old NS      New NS
-----------------      ----    ------      ------
Rejuvenation           12      15.6        15
Rejuvenation (Rank 15) 15      19.5        18
Lifebloom              7       9.1         10
Lifebloom (Glyph)      8       10.4        11
Regrowth               21      27.3        24
Regrowth (T5)          27      35.1        30 
Flourish               7       9.1         10
Insect Swarm           12      15.6        15
Moonfire               12      15.6        15
Moonfire (T6)          15      19.5        18

Lifebloom at 11 seconds (glyphed), how many 3 stacks can be maintained now?

Anaram · 09/06/08, 8:21 PM

Lifebloom at 11 seconds (glyphed), how many 3 stacks can be maintained now?

In theory 10, accounting for lag probably 8-9.

This requires about 1100mp/5 (lvl80) at maximum theoretical speed, which should be fairly acquirable. Best Sunwell gear with level 70 raid buffs gives about 400mp/5 while a mana battery would give an additional 300mp/5 with that gear. That is 400 mp/5 short of breaking even but given innervate should be sufficient for about 6 minutes. Of course, given level 80 raid buffs & gear, it probably breaks about even.

There should be some mechanism making it detrimental to have lifeblooms just rolling on "too many" people at once - it's just not very much fun to play like that. If it turns out to be the best way to heal then it certainly isn't much fun.

Montegomery · 09/06/08, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Anaram

In theory 10, accounting for lag probably 8-9.

This requires about 1100mp/5 (lvl80) at maximum theoretical speed, which should be fairly acquirable. Best Sunwell gear with level 70 raid buffs gives about 400mp/5 while a mana battery would give an additional 300mp/5 with that gear. That is 400 mp/5 short of breaking even but given innervate should be sufficient for about 6 minutes. Of course, given level 80 raid buffs & gear, it probably breaks about even.

There should be some mechanism making it detrimental to have lifeblooms just rolling on "too many" people at once - it's just not very much fun to play like that. If it turns out to be the best way to heal then it certainly isn't much fun.

It's been noted in this thread before that Lifebloom has had its healing slightly reduced, and other heals have been buffed to the point where it simply isn't worth stacking Lifebloom on any target that isn't taking constant damage. Even where it is stacked, it isn't by itself sufficient.

The only situation I can think of where one would be required to constantly Lifebloom all over the place is one where there is near constant but not overpowering AoE damage to the entire raid, except that Flourish already has that problem under control.

Anaram · 09/07/08, 5:50 AM

Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade

It's been noted in this thread before that Lifebloom has had its healing slightly reduced, and other heals have been buffed to the point where it simply isn't worth stacking Lifebloom on any target that isn't taking constant damage. Even where it is stacked, it isn't by itself sufficient.

I'm not sure I can fully agree with that. While lifebloom coefficient has been nerfed, it still has vastly superior scaling to florish. Unlike florish lifebloom also doesn't jump to pets nor blood worms. I'll agree things are quite close but I'm also a bit worried still.

Playered · 09/07/08, 10:55 AM

The Blood Worms etc are no doubt bugs in the mechanic - I wouldn't count on it being intended, pets however should be viable targets provided they need it.

Flourish hopefully will get nerfed slightly on its base values and enhanced on its scaling but really its hard to say.. right now it is very much worth the GCD spent on it though even for one target.

Ogemaniac · 09/07/08, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

Maybe I am thinking too simple about this but what exactly would speak against making Haste have an additional effect on HoTs and DoTs apart from the GCD reduction? Like increasing the effective HPS/DPS by X% where X is the amount of Haste you have. That way it never caps out.

In TBC, it really killed us that we had little haste and crit scaling. If this is not fixed in WotLK, it is highly likely that we will again fall behind other healers as we gear up. You are absolutely correct about GotEM. While it obviously is a powerful skill, it actually reduces our scaling with respect to haste. That is a serious problem.

Here is my suggestion for fixing the problem

1: Change Genesis from a flat bonus to one that scales with crit (ala Pandemic)

2: Change Nature's Splendor from a flat bous to one that scales with haste (ie, more haste = longer HoT/DoTs)

3: Nerf GotEM to .3 or .25 second reduction. This would cause the first ~250-300 haste (in TBC terms) to continue to improve our GCD

It is critical that we have talents that scale. If not, we will be "balanced" around our powers in level 80 quest blues and then fall behind again.

Anaram · 09/07/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

The Blood Worms etc are no doubt bugs in the mechanic - I wouldn't count on it being intended, pets however should be viable targets provided they need it.

This is probably true. However flourish has been there since first talents were published in F&F alpha and nothing has been changed with the targeting since it was changed from affecting whole raid to only affecting 5 targets.

Here's a question: based on what logic should flourish choose targets to produce optimal (and predictible) results?