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Old 12/16/08, 5:52 PM   #226
dukes
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Actually no, hit for casters is 17%, hit for physical-ranged is 8%, hit for physical-2h is 8% as it currently stands, and hit for dual wield is ~26% or something similar. Hit for abilities is 9% (which was the value I originally stated).

However there are a lot of talents that adjust all numbers, and spell hit is ~26 hit rating per point, while melee hit is ~32 per point. You need to assess it on a class-by-class/spec-by-spec basis, and it depends on whether they're melee or casters.

If a tank already has 6% expertise for the dodge cap, they also have 6% expertise towards the parry cap, which leaves them with 9% parry chance, which is the difference between a tank and a melee DPS in terms of expertise.

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Old 12/16/08, 6:59 PM   #227
Kadaan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
I've tried searching, but 't6' is too short and both '2t6' and '4t6' return no results.

Playing with RAWR, the Feral 2t6 bonus was near godly for cat dps with 4t6+2t7 being best-in-slot for dps with mangle spam. As of the 2.1.4 update, it rates both the 2 and 4-piece tier 6 bonuses much lower. The 2t6 bonus is now rated around the same as 2 non-set iLvl 200 epics. The changelog made no mention of any formula change.

Loading my character from the armory in both 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 (wearing 4t6) I get these values (socketed with blue-quality gems):
2.1.3:
- Thunderheart Cover: 196.81dps
- Valorous Dreamwalker Headguard: 148.65

2.1.4:
- Thunderheart Cover: 196.67
- Valorous Dreamwalker Headguard: 210.52

What changed that suddenly made the t7 hat jump over 60 dps, not even counting the set bonus?


EDIT: Found it, there's a post in the general class mechanics forum (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t21713-r...1/#post1008310) that says the old model was missing the 20% shred bonus on bleeding targets.

Last edited by Kadaan : 12/16/08 at 7:14 PM.

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Old 12/17/08, 2:36 AM   #228
cana
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Alleria (EU)
Simple Question, concerning 3.0.8's PotP
Tooltip says: "Increases your AP by 6% and reduces the damage you take by 12% while in Bear or Dire Bear Form".
Now I don't know how to exactly interpret this, could read it as:
(+6% AP and -12% DMG) while Bear or
+6% AP and (-12% DMG while Bear)

I expect that +6% AP bonus to only work for Bear though, can someone confirm?

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Old 12/17/08, 10:28 AM   #229
Lilija
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Druid
 
Bronzebeard (EU)
I have a qustion about roots recasting. Basicly, after first cast I can't recast them again before they end cause I'm getting "A more powerfull spell is already active" message. No trinkets proc buffs where up and I was all the time in the same form.

I know it's not a new thing but so far druids generally weren't expected to use roots as full time raid CC so I didn't bother investigating. I was wondering if anyone knows the reasons of this "bug" and maybe if there is some way to overcome it. I'm doing some tests of my own but so far I'm hitting the wall here =/

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Old 12/17/08, 11:35 AM   #230
dukes
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
It's to do with diminishing returns. Your first cast has full duration, your second cast has half that duration, and your third cast has 1/4 of the original duration. If you recast before the first roots ends, you'll always receive a "more powerful spell" error message because it would otherwise overwrite the original full duration cast, even if there's less than the half duration available on the target. It can be quite annoying in some situations.

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Old 12/17/08, 8:15 PM   #231
Kiku
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Darkspear
What is cat white damage base?

I understand that cat attack speed = 1.0s, so every 14ap adds 1 additional white damage. What I don't know is what the damage would be for a level 80 cat with 0 ap (in theory). I think at 70 this value was 55. I've searched high and low and haven't been able to find this.

So cat white damage auto attacks without any crits = X + AP/14. What does X = ?

I need to know this to be able to calculate shred damage. Ultimately I am trying to plot Shred and FB for each rank vs AP, so I can find at what point FB is better to use than shred (stricktly from a damage done standpoint). My preliminary graphs suggest that at somewhere below 2k AP a 3cp FB overtakes shred.

From there I can calculate what my average cp generated per second is, to figure out when it is advantageous for me to FB instead of continuing to shred based off of the time remaining on both rip and savage roar.

I would also be able to calculate if it's more overall damage to let rip or savage roar fall off for Y seconds in favor of building more cp for a larger FB.

I am sure all of this has been done in rawr and Toskks modeling, but the understanding of me doing it myself will allow me to dynamically adjust my rotation to any given situation.

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Old 12/17/08, 8:52 PM   #232
 sordee
Priest for Hire
 
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Tauren Priest
 
Dethecus
Originally Posted by Kiku View Post
I understand that cat attack speed = 1.0s, so every 14ap adds 1 additional white damage. What I don't know is what the damage would be for a level 80 cat with 0 ap (in theory). I think at 70 this value was 55. I've searched high and low and haven't been able to find this.
This hasn't changed. Cat innate DPS is based on a level 63 blue weapon. As you level initially from 1-60 the innate dps for cat scales up to 55. However at 60+ (late original game) there was the introduction of FAP. From then on FAP is used to modify this original 55DPS.

After the upcoming FAP removal you can take a two-hander and calculate old FAP as follows: ((2H DPS - 55) *14=Virtual FAP)

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Old 12/18/08, 5:04 AM   #233
Mippy
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Darkspear
For trees with Spirit-World Glass, when do you pop it? I have it macroed to Innervate (I use the Innervate glyph and virtually never Innervate myself, so I get a fair regen boost when I use it on someone else), seems like I could be getting more mileage out of it but can't think of how while still ensuring it's up for Innervate.

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Old 12/18/08, 9:06 PM   #234
cham0w
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Dalaran (EU)
Hi,

Someone tell me what is the most important stats for bear tanking?
Can you give me a set of values to beggin Naxxramas in bear tanking (def,hp,dodge,armor)?
And to finish what are the caps to have in bear tanking (def, armor, ...)?

Sorry for my poor English

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Old 12/18/08, 9:17 PM   #235
Kadaan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by cham0w View Post
Hi,

Someone tell me what is the most important stats for bear tanking?
Can you give me a set of values to beggin Naxxramas in bear tanking (def,hp,dodge,armor)?
And to finish what are the caps to have in bear tanking (def, armor, ...)?

Sorry for my poor English
You need 0 defense, just 3 points in SotF.

For everything else, just fill up with level 80 blues and you're set for Naxx. ~25k hp unbuffed is a good min value, any trinkets/necklaces/cloaks/rings with +armor on them are great starters until 3.0.8 hits.

The only difference in my tank set vs dps set when I first hit up Naxx was the gloves from the CoT:CoH quest that had insane stamina on them.

Past that, just use RAWR and start looking for easily obtainable upgrades from heroics (like the ring from Heroic Drak'tharon)

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Old 12/19/08, 4:06 AM   #236
Realshaggy
Glass Joe
 
Troll Priest
 
Blackmoore (EU)
Does anybody have a good estimation for the proc-chance of the first T4-Bonus at lvl80? It seems to scale down, but I can't find any numbers. (mostly because I can't use "T4" as a search-phrase and "Malorne" is very rarely used.)

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Old 12/19/08, 4:52 AM   #237
halmmar
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
<Zen>
Xavius (EU)
Originally Posted by Realshaggy View Post
Does anybody have a good estimation for the proc-chance of the first T4-Bonus at lvl80? It seems to scale down, but I can't find any numbers. (mostly because I can't use "T4" as a search-phrase and "Malorne" is very rarely used.)
0% if I remember correctly.

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Old 12/19/08, 7:20 AM   #238
Rosboeuf
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Eonar (EU)
Hi everyone,

Just a quick question - I'm new to druid healing (being an enh shammy) but I was wondering whether anyone had done any quick and dirty calculations to get some level 80 Naxx-level EP values for tree healing? I've looked through this thread but the lootrank templates don't seem quite right (eg, a value of 24 for mp5 and only 8 for spirit??).

Cheers!

RB

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Old 12/19/08, 7:24 AM   #239
a civilian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Realshaggy View Post
Does anybody have a good estimation for the proc-chance of the first T4-Bonus at lvl80? It seems to scale down, but I can't find any numbers. (mostly because I can't use "T4" as a search-phrase and "Malorne" is very rarely used.)
My recollection was that the proc chance was unchanged but the amount of energy returned per proc scaled down linearly with level to 0 at level 80. In any case, it's useless at 80.

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Old 12/19/08, 7:56 AM   #240
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
The proc chance reduces by 0.4% per level, from 4% at 70 to 0% at 80 iirc.

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Old 12/19/08, 3:50 PM   #241
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Rosboeuf View Post
Hi everyone,

Just a quick question - I'm new to druid healing (being an enh shammy) but I was wondering whether anyone had done any quick and dirty calculations to get some level 80 Naxx-level EP values for tree healing? I've looked through this thread but the lootrank templates don't seem quite right (eg, a value of 24 for mp5 and only 8 for spirit??).

Cheers!

RB
Pawn addon values for all specs

It should be useful at least as a general guide, assuming you run with replenishment (if not, the value of int goes down). Essentially it boils down to sp/int/spirit being great, while haste/crit/mp5 being not as great relative to the budget. Spellpower worth the most, but it's usually fixed for ilvl. Mp5 worth the least (approx. double spirit).

The values in my scale were borrowed from this post.

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Old 12/22/08, 7:50 AM   #242
Rannasha
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Windchilla View Post
The faster you get your rotation going the better, I generally open a fight with mangle, rake, SR
As an after-thought to this: Unless other raiders are heavily relying on your Mangle debuff during the opening seconds of the fight, i've found it more beneficial to start with Rake and then Mangle. The initial damage of Rake is unaffected by Mangle and with the first Rake tick being 3 seconds after its application, there is plenty of time to apply the Mangle debuff so that it affects the first Rake tick.

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Old 12/22/08, 9:53 AM   #243
Myrskytuuli
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Mippy View Post
For trees with Spirit-World Glass, when do you pop it?
Basically, I think the best use for it is to improve regeneration while not casting. Once you get familiar with the fights, you probably know when you get such moments far apart enough from the moments when you need to Innervate.

Most bossfights now are so short that you really won't have time to use the Glass twice in a sensible way. Some, however, last long enough for multiple uses, and they usually also have some lull moments for regen. Clear examples coming to mind: Sartharion between portals (supposing you have adds) and once the last dragon add has died. Kel'Thuzad soon after the boss himself has joined the battle (and the MT is hotted up).

Where I mostly use this aspect of the Spirit-World Glass is trash, though. Our tanks start speed-pulling the trash pretty much right after they've looted their badges from the previous boss, and next pack is always pulled before the previous pack is dead, so I usually spend no time out of combat during the trash.

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Old 12/22/08, 12:31 PM   #244
 Kurisu
So damned Devious
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
~Disregard just noticed the thread on it.

Last edited by Kurisu : 12/22/08 at 12:54 PM.


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Old 12/23/08, 12:02 PM   #245
baldeagle
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by cana View Post
Simple Question, concerning 3.0.8's PotP
Tooltip says: "Increases your AP by 6% and reduces the damage you take by 12% while in Bear or Dire Bear Form".
Now I don't know how to exactly interpret this, could read it as:
(+6% AP and -12% DMG) while Bear or
+6% AP and (-12% DMG while Bear)

I expect that +6% AP bonus to only work for Bear though, can someone confirm?
I believe your answer lies in the name of the talent, "Protector" meaning the tank/bear form. The 6% ap applies only to Bear form, not Cat, as I understand it. Anyone else that has confirmation otherwise, please correct this.

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Old 12/23/08, 1:08 PM   #246
baldeagle
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Legion

Originally Posted by cham0w
Hi,

Someone tell me what is the most important stats for bear tanking?
Can you give me a set of values to beggin Naxxramas in bear tanking (def,hp,dodge,armor)?
And to finish what are the caps to have in bear tanking (def, armor, ...)?

Sorry for my poor English
You need 0 defense, just 3 points in SotF.

For everything else, just fill up with level 80 blues and you're set for Naxx. ~25k hp unbuffed is a good min value, any trinkets/necklaces/cloaks/rings with +armor on them are great starters until 3.0.8 hits.

The only difference in my tank set vs dps set when I first hit up Naxx was the gloves from the CoT:CoH quest that had insane stamina on them.

Past that, just use RAWR and start looking for easily obtainable upgrades from heroics (like the ring from Heroic Drak'tharon)
The three primary stats you need to focus on are Armor, Stam, & Dodge. For dodge, look for agility as well as pure dodge on an item.

As far as what the caps are, on Armor you should be shooting for 75%, but the pure armor cap depends on the assumed level of the boss. Lvl 83 raid bosses mean we have an armor cap of 49,905 according to wowwiki, so your eventual target would be 75% of that. I say eventual, because as Kadaan replied, for beginning Naxx, don't worry much about that, just use Rawr to show you what gear you should be grabbing along the way. Many people feel somewhere around 30k armor is just fine for Naxx to start, and you will increase that quickly with drops in there.

For dodge, the true cap is 100%, but the effective cap is arguably 45 to 50%. Anything higher and you are not going to generate the rage needed to tank effectively. Again, for entry level naxx, around 30% minimum in my opinion, I prefer to be 33%.

As Kadaan said, you do NOT need to worry about defense, as long as you spec 3 pts in Survival of the Fittest, since druids are at the defense cap already in this case.

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Old 12/23/08, 3:47 PM   #247
halmmar
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
<Zen>
Xavius (EU)
Originally Posted by baldeagle View Post
As far as what the caps are, on Armor you should be shooting for 75%, but the pure armor cap depends on the assumed level of the boss. Lvl 83 raid bosses mean we have an armor cap of 49,905 according to wowwiki, so your eventual target would be 75% of that.
No, you want to aim for 80%+ of that (80%*1.25 from inspiration = 100%). That is, 40k+ armor.

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Old 12/23/08, 6:00 PM   #248
baldeagle
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Legion
Why would you shoot for 80% armor when you are capped at 75%? Unless something has changed, or I am misunderstanding, the game mechanics are such that at 75% you are armor capped an receive no benefit from additional armor. If this is incorrect, please explain. Any source material for facts would also be greatly appreciated. I am no expert, just a student of the game, and as such would like to read up on info you may have that sheds light on this.

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Old 12/23/08, 6:05 PM   #249
 Adoriele
Save Greendale!
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by baldeagle View Post
Why would you shoot for 80% armor when you are capped at 75%? Unless something has changed, or I am misunderstanding, the game mechanics are such that at 75% you are armor capped an receive no benefit from additional armor. If this is incorrect, please explain. Any source material for facts would also be greatly appreciated. I am no expert, just a student of the game, and as such would like to read up on info you may have that sheds light on this.
You're misinterpreting the 75% rule. 49905 Armor is the point at which you get 75% damage reduction from armor against level 83 bosses, and is hence the cap. It's not that you're armor-capped at 75% of 49905, but that you cannot gain more than 75% damage reduction from armor. He advocates staying at 80% of this number because Inspiration procs increase your armor by 25%, and .8*1.25 = 1, which would put you at the 49905 cap.


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Old 12/23/08, 9:19 PM   #250
Morsetlis
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Kilrogg
I need a ranking of these in HPS and HPM order:

Regrowth.
Nourish.
Glyphed HT.
Regrowth + 20% from Glyph.
Nourish + 20% from rolling HoTs.
Nourish + 20% x 20% from rolling HoTs and 4pT7.

I was not able to find any definitive answer on this question.

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