Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 22

Lightflower · 01/15/09, 6:35 PM

Silly question but I have been unable to locate an answer (apologies if this is a repost).

We had a few attempts on You Don't Have an Eternity and I noticed that Entangle would sometimes break early. Can the spell still break on its own damage and/or does it have a periodic resist check?

If neither of those are true, does an early break mean that someone was hitting the Entangled target and does anyone have an idea of the damage threshold required to break the spell if that is the case?

Xaa · 01/15/09, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Lightflower

We had a few attempts on You Don't Have an Eternity and I noticed that Entangle would sometimes break early. Can the spell still break on its own damage and/or does it have a periodic resist check?

If neither of those are true, does an early break mean that someone was hitting the Entangled target and does anyone have an idea of the damage threshold required to break the spell if that is the case?

I'm pretty sure that it breaks on a percentage-based amount of damage. Our druids also noticed the roots breaking early. We had to ensure everyone in the raid was staying well away from those AoE spells. After becoming infuriated, we looked into it and found that Living Bomb was causing the breaks. However, even without LB being used, the roots still do break early - we've just learnt to live with it.

Lightflower · 01/15/09, 7:59 PM

Originally Posted by Xaa

I'm pretty sure that it breaks on a percentage-based amount of damage. Our druids also noticed the roots breaking early. We had to ensure everyone in the raid was staying well away from those AoE spells. After becoming infuriated, we looked into it and found that Living Bomb was causing the breaks. However, even without LB being used, the roots still do break early - we've just learnt to live with it.

Thanks for that, I'll pay more attention in future. It's just that I'm not very good at Balance and I find that babysitting Entangle really cuts my DPS down.

Gamil · 01/16/09, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by Xaa

I'm pretty sure that it breaks on a percentage-based amount of damage. Our druids also noticed the roots breaking early. We had to ensure everyone in the raid was staying well away from those AoE spells. After becoming infuriated, we looked into it and found that Living Bomb was causing the breaks. However, even without LB being used, the roots still do break early - we've just learnt to live with it.

During trying "Heroic: You Don't Have An Eternity" our druids while catching sparks are complains about "A more powerfull spell is already active" when they trying to recast roots. I do not agree that its becouse of diminishing returns. (druids have DR in PvE only Cyclone and Celestial Focus Diminishing returns - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft )
Nevertheless they very often experience some troubles with recasting roots on their own marked sparks. So they use different ranks of Roots: 6th, 7th and 8th. (no trink procs and SP increase this time)

Can anybody say something about it ? Or say how you hold 4-5 sparks in one point.

Lobonija · 01/16/09, 11:13 AM

From what I understand from what our resto druids have told me regarding roots; Roots have a "resist/break check" every few seconds which is apparently decreased with hit, and this is in addition to damage breaking roots early. Only solution being to spam the spell.

As for getting around the more powerful spell problem, we've had our 4th "root" druid simply cast on the spark in question, which removes the more powerful message, and allows the first druid to root it immediatly afterwards.
Hope that helps.

Monedula · 01/16/09, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Gamil

During trying "Heroic: You Don't Have An Eternity" our druids while catching sparks are complains about "A more powerfull spell is already active" when they trying to recast roots. I do not agree that its becouse of diminishing returns. (druids have DR in PvE only Cyclone and Celestial Focus Diminishing returns - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft )
Nevertheless they very often experience some troubles with recasting roots on their own marked sparks. So they use different ranks of Roots: 6th, 7th and 8th. (no trink procs and SP increase this time)

Can anybody say something about it ? Or say how you hold 4-5 sparks in one point.

The "more powerful spell active" thing I also get when casting rip. The thing is either Savage Roar dropped off or for example at Malygos the active Rip was cast with 1 or 2 "debuffs" more that each increase damage by 50%.

For your druids I would advice to never cast entangling roots when they are staning int he spark area. Further let em unequip every trinket that can proc +spelldamage. I am not that familiar with the Balance tree, but if there are any +spelldamage procs that occur because of talents they should cast a lower rank entangle during that proc.
Some other tricks then using different ranks:
Casting in moonkin for and non-moonkin form.
Trinkets with "use" to increase spelldamage.
Sending a wrath the mobs way to break the entangle. While it flies towards them recast entangling roots. When wrath hits the next entangle isn't far away.

Originally Posted by Lobonija

As for getting around the more powerful spell problem, we've had our 4th "root" druid simply cast on the spark in question, which removes the more powerful message, and allows the first druid to root it immediatly afterwards.

This sounds to me like a bug.
If I recall correctly previously it was possible for 2 druids to both cast roots on one target at the same time. They removed this but then allowed the roots form a different druid to be seen as a different spell. This is unlike MotW for instance, where one druid without iMotW is unable to cast his MotW on a target that has iMotW casted on him (even if there is only 10 seconds left).

As a sidenote, what is wrong with a DK pulling the spark behind Malygos (I know it sometimes is not possible).

Alerian · 01/16/09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Gamil

our druids while catching sparks are complains about "A more powerfull spell is already active" when they trying to recast roots. I do not agree that its becouse of diminishing returns.

This happens with spell power increases. The badge trinket has a spell power proc and that has at times been awkward to deal with, but if you're on your toes, you can keep your root target more or less in the same spot.

One culprit for getting the "A more powerfull spell is already active" message could be a shaman spell power totem being up when roots is cast and not being up when they try to refresh it. Totems are easy to miss in your buff list.

I've tried this a couple of times and had issues with my roots breaking early on almost every cast, so I ended up doing a root/other spell/other spell/root situation and that almost always worked. Make sure your druids set their root target to their focus target and use a focus target root macro (/cast [target=focus] Entangling Roots) so they don't have to re-target their spark to root it. Another option is to use 2-3 DKs and pull each spark further back so you have more breathing room if roots do break early.

Ashaera · 01/16/09, 11:45 AM

Theres only 2 times in which its right to reroot : 1) When its about to run out / 2) Just before vortex. Root->other spells->other spell->root is just wasting casting time you could spend on dpsing or healing.

Bad luck breaks during vortex occur, sometimes you can death grip em down before its over - But else you wipe & go again.
If your roots keep breaking then check Recount or wws & figure out who is hurting them.

Easiest way to fix "more powerful" is to start with root rank 5, if it refuses to let you reroot then you go to rank 6. If it happens again you go to rank 7. If it happens 3 times in 1 fight you are either rooting too much or have seriously bad RNG.

Alerian · 01/16/09, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ashaera

Theres only 2 times in which its right to reroot : 1) When its about to run out / 2) Just before vortex. Root->other spells->other spell->root is just wasting casting time you could spend on dpsing or healing.

Correct. I had a bad situation where I was extremely unlucky and our dps was acting up and that's why I was doing that rotation. Edited my post so folks don't think that that should be a normal practice.

Nitz · 01/16/09, 11:29 PM

I did 2h worth of tries on "You Don't Have An Eternity" normal, and I had a lot of early breaks on my root before I put some hit gear to attain 4%. I see some people saying hit does reduce heartbeat breaks but is there any source or math on this ? 2 hours is not what one can call a large sample, it could be RNG.

Santorayo · 01/17/09, 6:02 AM

Is [Idol of Worship] still broken on PTR?

Mysticum · 01/17/09, 1:53 PM

Short answer: No.

Baelfur · 01/17/09, 9:13 PM

Do any have a basic HP > Dodge Rat > Agi > Expertise stat value model to scale from for bear tanking? I usually kitty deeps and have the dps model down but have been needing to respec to tank when a MT or OT fails to show, and despite reading the majority of druid tank threads have not been able to find a compiled location of what values to prioritize. Any info would be helpful.

Monedula · 01/17/09, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Baelfur

Do any have a basic HP > Dodge Rat > Agi > Expertise stat value model to scale from for bear tanking? I usually kitty deeps and have the dps model down but have been needing to respec to tank when a MT or OT fails to show, and despite reading the majority of druid tank threads have not been able to find a compiled location of what values to prioritize. Any info would be helpful.

Rawr will help you I think. Just google for rawr and you will find it.
If you are asking for specific value what is good for offtanking...
Raidbuffed: I would say go for 40k hp. 35k can be pretty ok too. More is better ofcourse. 30% dodge is a minimum to aim for. 30k+ armor is your third stat to look for but there.
You mention agility. Agility is your main stat to get dodge. Don't go for dodge rating, go for agility.
As offtank you should not worry that much about expertise. Expertise is something you get from gear pretty easy. It does do some passive mitigation, but as offtank the others in your raid should learn to watch omen if they might overagro you.

What I mentioned is based on experience and in my opinion it is something that is a minimum, but also something easily gained (the stamina is a bit harder to get). I started out in WotLK with T4 feral gear, and entered my first naxx 25 with about those stats I mentioned (or better).
Don;t worry too much. Blizzard made this expansions first content pretty easy so that people can gear up pretty easy for harder content yet to come.

Fearofan · 01/18/09, 12:17 PM

Does second moonkin Tir6 bonus (5% crit to SF) work with second Tir7 bonus (5% crit to SF and W)?