As of recently, it did not. The best bet currently for that sort of thing is probably [Idol of the White Stag]: Mangle, SR, Swipe like mad.

Restoration Itemization

Basically the answer depends on your current int and spirit, consider getting "Ratingbuster" for ingame tooltips listing mp5 from spi/int.

I'm wondering why there are no discussions on Dreamstate as a Resto build here on EJ.com?

It looks like a good option with upcoming mana regen nerfs, and it requires sacrificing WG and LS, which, although really useful, might be worth it for the added mana regen. Plus, itemization so far on Naxx-level items means I always have Intel even on the best Spirit gear.

What's the rationale for Resto discussions not to include a Dreamstate build? I don't want to argue, I just want to ask a stupid question and I'm told this is the place.

Because dreamstate sucks and anyone who makes a resto spec with it is an idiot.

You're giving up Wild Growth, 5/5 GotEM (have fun getting the 1269 haste rating needed to reach a 1s gcd), one point in Imp. ToL (which reduces the Lunar Guidance bonus to ~5% if not less due to having more spirit and Living Spirit talent. In addition to that you also loose out on Living Seed and Replenish, neither totally awesome but still good (and Replenish is due for a buff). All that for ~110mp5 and ~60sp at best.

If this upcoming nerf to spirit regen is so harsh that resto druids are willing to give up all that for dreamstate then Blizzard took it one step too far. Innervate should be the only thing hit really hard by this nerf and I'd say rightfully so seeing as it gives so much mana at the moment.

Ignoring the possibility to pop a haste pot before pull, and the second later..
Is it best to use the pot during bloodlust, or before it for personal dps?
Our cooldowns are unaffected by the pot (Treants don't get hasted, starfall would just do its damage faster which only changes things if the fight ends during the starfall)

If popping it during bloodlust is better damage - would it be better to use it before anyway, so the mob gets down to 35% faster? (for the rest of the raid naturally)

Obviously the challenging fights atm (Sarth 3, timed malygos) have specific times when it'd be good to use it, so this is really more for trying to get the best parse for patchwerk than anything else I can think of ATM.

I've spent a little to much time trying to find the answers and figured someone would be able to give me relative good answer (I am only looking for general rule of thumbs if something is different at some theoretical point in gear or raid composistion it won't matter as much to me as overall whats beter)

1) Shred or Mangle for optimal DPS as kitty cat in 25 man raid situation? (if in cat gear and can spec for dps is it beter to only use mangle or to use shred and I do relaize this will alter your talent build a little?)

2) When using beserk and savage roar, rip and rake are already on a mob and no where needing to be refreshed yet is it beter to spam mangle/shred or 5cp FB then wait for more energy? (I've been spamming shred and with >1 sec left on beserk FB to eat the CP then going back to normal rotation less I can re-apply rip).

3) Is there a magic number where if you have X amounts of seconds left on rip where you want to FB or is it beter to refresh it even though theres ticks left on it? (I have been FB and letting ticks finish then building more cp to apply rip again)

Either way you obviously want to pot during an eclipse period.

Made some ingame tests, results are in image below.



Haste from various sources dont stack up in a sexy way, so in terms of pot effect only you gain the most by using it outside of heroism.

Lets look at the lowest set of numbers to get closer to raidlike stats. Assuming potion proc at the moment you proc eclipse so only discussing SF effect.
If you use the pot outside of heroism every SF becomes 0.27seconds faster.
Inside heroism that number is 0.2seconds pr SF.

In return you cast more SF's during 15seconds inside heroism than you do outside of it.
During heroism 15 / 1,63 = 9,2025 SF
Outside heroism 15 / 2,11 = 7,109 SF

Time gained:
During heroism 9.2025*0,2 = 1.84 seconds.
Outside heroism 7.109*0,27 = 1.91 seconds

So the short answer is outside of heroism, but in reality you wont see or feel any difference so do as you please.

Argument for use before 35% - You increase the "burn" period a tiny tiny bit.
Argument for use during heroism - It might be easier to time a good use of the potion here as you will have downtime waiting for gcd after a wrathcast.

1) Assuming your friend has some decent feral gear he's using for dps, he can tank just fine with it long as he gets a spec that includes SotF and all the armor and dodge talents in the feral tree. For further customization Rawr is an excellent way to judge gearsets. Avoidance comes from agility that is present on all leather gear, Defense is not required for druids as of 3.0 and armor comes naturally from the gear as well. Tanking enchants/gems are obviously much better but for starter purposes, basic dps gear can do the job.

2) Mangle whenever it's ready, always maul if you re not rage starved, spam swipe in between. Keeping a 5 stack lacerate up gives a slight edge if dealing with a single boss mob, but even then it's by no means mandatory.




That said, I'd like to ask some stuff of my own towards moonkins since I've recently switched from feral to moonkin for testing purposes mostly and I've been fiddling around with the rotations and eclipse management. My gear although decent enough, does not include the Starfire Idol; so I'm forced to using the Wrath one. According to my own calculations and dummy tests, which are not in a presentable form right now, during Eclipse cooldown, I seem to be getting more DPS by spamming Wrath till the next Eclipse proc, rather than sticking to SF and using Wrath again when the Eclipse CD is up as is commonly suggested. I'm assuming this is because of the missing idol or possibly poor execution on my side. In any case, it seems to be worth it to stick to Wrath during Eclipse CD when the SF idol isn't available, unless someone has data to claim otherwise.

Another point I'd like to discuss, is handling of 5 man trash pulls. In large pulls of 4+ mobs hurricane is a no brainer; rest of the time however, it's still a gray area for me, since I can't seem to figure a proper way to produce decent dps. So my question to more experienced moonkins would be about how you handle 3 or less mob pulls, where they die pretty fast to pull any sort of rotation or try to proc Eclipse. Dot them all up? Straight nukes with Wrath or Starfire? I understand that each pull is different and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter that much but I'd still like to hear some thoughts.

Wrath may be better than SF at low gear levels (particularly low Haste).

If trash will live long enough for each spell to complete (30s for FoN, 15s for MF, 14s for IS, 10s for Hurricane or Starfall), and you don't care about anything but total DPS, and AoE's hit every target possible, my DPSC rankings are

2 targets: FoN > Sfl > MF > IS > Typhoon > Hurricane > Nukes
3-7 targets: FoN > Sfl > Typhoon > Hurricane > single-target spells
8 targets: FoN > Typhoon > Sfl > Hurricane
9-11 targets: Typhoon > FoN > Hurricane > Sfl
12+ targets: Typhoon > Hurricane

These may move around a bit depending on gear and spec.

I'd prefer to save Sfl and FoN for boss fights. For short trash fights I tend to go with

2+ targets: Hurricane, Typhoon for low-health hurricane survivors.

Hurricane is not likely to hit anything you'd really rather not hit. Starfall, typhoon, and tab+DoT can all hit something you don't want.

Hurricane also puts a nice debuff on the targets. Realize that while your current Hurricane is channeling, you can already be placing the ground-targetting circle for your next Hurricane.

Maul damage is increased on bleeding targets (assuming R&T).

Very interesting, my moonkin alt learned another thing

One more question from me, reading and asking around i got told its good to refresh moonfire if it falls off at the start of an eclipse proc, but now im starting to wonder if thats actually correct, or possibly correct at lower gear levels? Secondly, if it is, whats the time left on eclipse where its still a dps gain to spend a GCD on moonfire?

edit: my bad, i should learn to first read the end of the moonkin raiding discussion, instead asking a question in this threat thats answered at the last page of, i'll leave my question here since i imagine i'm not the only one who didnt know this yet.