Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 4

Nilaus · 11/24/08, 4:27 AM

When I am soloing in catform I find it quite annoying to keep SR up consistently due to the short duration and the need for combopoints and energy to refresh it.

I see 2 ways of attempting to keep it up:
* Build up 5 pts and SR, then kill a few mobs and build up another 5 pts when it is about to expire. I find this rather annoying because mobs tend to die before I get the chance to refresh it and then I am left with SR.
* Attack and spent first combo point on SR, but it will only last for this fight. (for this I use Mangle, since Rake would get an inferior dot if applied without SR).

I usually opt for the second option, and just accept that the first Mangle can be without SR. The 19 sec duration for a 1-2 pt SR is usually sufficient to engage the next mob when chain killing.

Any other suggestions on how to keep it up?

Varthara · 11/24/08, 5:26 AM

It seems like I remember reading somewhere on these forums that the following is true, please correct me if I am wrong!

Intensity > Dreamstate > Moonglow

The reason I ask is because when I am creating a PvE moonkin build it seems like it usually comes down to having either 3/3 moonglow or 2/3 dreamstate.

Darkchild · 11/24/08, 7:28 AM

I did some math myself about expertise cap but its so high that I can barely believe its correct;

32.8 expertise rating = 1% dodge/parry
boss have 15 to 16% parry, lets aim for 15%.

15x32.8 = 492 expertise rating.

is this correct?

if so, is it worth going for?

I couldn't find a good topic about this, but I asume SOMEONE must have calculated how valuable expertise really is?

thedopefishlives · 11/24/08, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Varthara

Has anyone seen any math done on the new heroic badge trinket?

[Sundial of the Exiled]

Rawr models this item. It's a pretty darn good trinket; for the Moonkin I have open in front of me as I write this, it's the second-best trinket listed, behind Dying Curse.

Dibsclaw · 11/24/08, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Nilaus

When I am soloing in catform I find it quite annoying to keep SR up consistently due to the short duration and the need for combopoints and energy to refresh it.

...

Any other suggestions on how to keep it up?

I'm sure i read it elsewhere on these forums, but if you are starting fresh, use your first CP to set up SR, then just nuke the mob down. Use any and all CPs remaining on the mob before it dies to refresh a longer SR (I usually get 5) and then just keep refreshing 4-5 CP SR on new mobs as you kill. If it runs out, just start anew with 1 CP. Ignore your other finishers.
SR is very much the superior finishing move for me while grinding, since Rip won't get any chance to do its full damage and FB uses far too much energy. As well as this, I'm killing mobs just as quickly as I was when i was using FB, but without the energy loss that comes with it.

Munorion · 11/24/08, 11:49 AM

From the 3.0.3 patch notes:

# Druid: Omen of Clarity now has a reduced chance to be triggered by Hurricane.

How much did they really reduce the chance? I gather that before that change, you could get multiple OoC procs on AoE intensive fights (Hyjal trash). How is it now? Is it still the case that you're more or less guaranteed one proc if there's a reasonable amount of mobs (say 5+)?

erragal · 11/24/08, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Munorion

From the 3.0.3 patch notes:

How much did they really reduce the chance? I gather that before that change, you could get multiple OoC procs on AoE intensive fights (Hyjal trash). How is it now? Is it still the case that you're more or less guaranteed one proc if there's a reasonable amount of mobs (say 5+)?

I haven't done any focused accurate testing. If you want an initial impression it seems like 50-60% of the time I will get a proc from a hurricane. It doesn't seem related to the number of targets at all anymore, but it can definitely proc at any point during the channeled cast.

Kuruk · 11/24/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Varthara

It seems like I remember reading somewhere on these forums that the following is true, please correct me if I am wrong!

Intensity > Dreamstate > Moonglow

The reason I ask is because when I am creating a PvE moonkin build it seems like it usually comes down to having either 1/3 moonglow or 1/3 dreamstate.

Your question has been answered here.

What do you mean having either 1/3 Moonglow or 1/3 Dreamstate? That doesn't make sense. You have to have 1/3 Moonglow to advance further down the tree.

---

My simple question:

What resources are there out there, that you can utilise for min/maxing your character?

I know of Rawr but sadly it hasn't been fully updated for WLK yet.

Adoriele has mentioned above that the new DPS spreadsheet already exists. The original thread is locked however, and I couldn't find a new one. Could you please provide a link?

Anything else?

Septus · 11/24/08, 4:36 PM

Does anyone think that glyph of HT would not be the best glyph to have for healing instances, prior to lvl 80? I don't feel too confident that regrowth, swiftmend, and hots alone would be enough in all healing situations.

GTtheBard · 11/24/08, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Septus

Does anyone think that glyph of HT would not be the best glyph to have for healing instances, prior to lvl 80? I don't feel too confident that regrowth, swiftmend, and hots alone would be enough in all healing situations.

I've been healing instances since I got to Northrend - figured I'd blow all my rested xp in instances (15 minute AN pugs, nevermind guild runs, netting ~100k xp is awesome) - and I haven't found a single time where I've needed to use HT. Regrowth has covered all of my big healing. I'm only level 74 (and now that I'm out of rested xp, I'm Boomkin and questing), but I was able to heal up to and including Violet Hold without a problem, and without HT.

Trust your hots, you'll be fine with them.

Ramble · 11/24/08, 5:37 PM

In general, how should I be gemming/enchanting my cat and bear gear? Am I tossing defense? Am I replacing AGI with STR now? Am I waiting a couple months to see how feral 'lands'?

Finandir · 11/24/08, 7:22 PM

Can anyone give a simple formula for feral bear and cat as to which stats should be focused on? I'm looking for something along the lines of x>y>z... I haven't seen one of these since the expansion. For bear, it would be especially useful to know how it will look for the 3.0.4 patch if it will differ. I know this is simplifying things quite a bit, but it would be helpful in getting started. Also, if there are any target numbers to shoot for given the fact that we no longer need to work toward 415 defense, that would be useful as well.

If this already exists in another thread, please point me to it. I've tried looking, but with hundreds of pages of info here, it is tough to wade through to find something like this.

kalbear · 11/24/08, 8:01 PM

Try the Feral Questions thread, Finandir.

Prinsesa · 11/24/08, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ramble

In general, how should I be gemming/enchanting my cat and bear gear? Am I tossing defense? Am I replacing AGI with STR now? Am I waiting a couple months to see how feral 'lands'?

You are completely uncrittable without any defense from gear, so yes, you are tossing out defense on gems, enchants and gear completely, although I'm not familiar with the alternatives.

Logros · 11/25/08, 1:40 AM

I looked around for this but really couldn't find it.

With Gift of the Earthmother, how much haste would be required to hit 1 second global cooldowns?
And, is there a point that diminishing returns kick in for haste? I guess I'm looking for the haste sweet spot

uliko · 11/25/08, 7:43 AM

With WoA totem you need 9.89% haste to hit the 1s GCD, without 15.38%.

Taudark · 11/25/08, 8:38 AM

To the question about gemming & enchanting bear gear. I'd go with either stamina, stamina/agility or agility/hit like before.

• Carpone · 11/25/08, 10:48 AM

How many ranks of Feral Aggression does it take to hit the AP reduction cap for bosses?

thedopefishlives · 11/25/08, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Kuruk

My simple question:

What resources are there out there, that you can utilise for min/maxing your character?

I know of Rawr but sadly it hasn't been fully updated for WLK yet.

Adoriele has mentioned above that the new DPS spreadsheet already exists. The original thread is locked however, and I couldn't find a new one. Could you please provide a link?

Anything else?

If you're talking from a moonkin perspective, that's news to me. Rawr.Moonkin has been Lich King-ready since, well, Lich King. Adoriele and I worked together to get the math somewhere in the neighborhood of correct, and so far it seems to be working out.

klüger · 11/25/08, 11:58 AM

At my decently shitty gear level (~1100spelldmg) capped-ish hit, 15% crit (in kin-form) and around 100ish haste, mana sustainability is my main problem.
Its actually so bad that I'm contemplating doing a wrath heavy rotation with the hopes that the increased returns from moonkinform (higher number of crits) will come out on top of a starfire-heavy one (Will test that tonight or tomorrow).
The rotation I'm looking at is: IS-Wrath till eclipse, starfire during eclipse and is->wrath again.

My main instinct as it is, is to gear for crit. After capping hit I am aiming to get as much crit I can due to both increasing dps and increasing manaregen. Haste is about the last thing I am aiming for at this moment.

The actual question:
At which point of crit/spellpower should I start valuing spellpower over crit? (haste still seems to be a while in the future for me).

The calculations seem to value spellpower too much, probably due to no manaproblems in 3.0 tbc.

This is with raiding in mind of course.

Alerian · 11/25/08, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by klüger

At my decently shitty gear level (~1100spelldmg) capped-ish hit, 15% crit (in kin-form) and around 100ish haste, mana sustainability is my main problem. Its actually so bad that I'm contemplating doing a wrath heavy rotation with the hopes that the increased returns from moonkinform (higher number of crits) will come out on top of a starfire-heavy one.

Starfire is a better spell when you're having mana issues since it has better damage per mana spent. While yes, you may get a higher number of critical hits using a lower-cast-time spell, you'll also get a higher number of non-critical hits, so I would not recommend using the Moonkin Form proc as a basis for casting rotations.

Originally Posted by klüger

My main instinct as it is, is to gear for crit. After capping hit I am aiming to get as much crit I can due to both increasing dps and increasing manaregen. Haste is about the last thing I am aiming for at this moment.

The actual question:
At which point of crit/spellpower should I start valuing spellpower over crit? (haste still seems to be a while in the future for me).

The calculations seem to value spellpower too much, probably due to no manaproblems in 3.0 tbc.

This is with raiding in mind of course.

Since you are asking about raiding, I'm not sure why you are having mana issues in 25 mans. Two Replenishment providers should be more than sufficient. I do have mana issues at times in 5 mans, but in those cases I switch to a Starfire-only spam and still do decent-enough-for-a-5-man dps.

Gearing for crit is very expensive, stat-wise. Usually as you get raid gear, you'll acquire more than enough crit. I currently only have 0.1% more crit than you do at the moment, based on your Armory profile (I also noticed that you only have 91 +hit, whereas you had mentioned you were hit capped, so maybe the Armory doesn't have your normal raiding gear set).

Picking up the new Emblem gear is a good way to go. The trinket, off-hand, and leather items are all very good and will help you up your spell power and your crit simultaneously. All of the leather spell power gear in Naxx has either haste or crit on it, so you will pick up more of those stats as well (although I am aiming for cloth for my non-T7 slots to prevent having to have only +hit gear in my trinkets, amulets, MH, and OH slots).

mandala · 11/25/08, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Diameter

I was surprised when I was modeling resto gear in rawr that all the best gear had crit rating on it instead of haste. I was modeling with a 25 man raid in mind covering all the buffs.

So, assume the following are true:
1. You have WoA totem and 3% haste from Imp. Moonkin/Ret Aura.
2. Your talent spec includes 5/5 Gift of the Earthmother, 3/3 Nature's Grace, and 3/3 Living Seed.
3. You have enough regen to last whatever fight you are doing (from gear, buffs, a potion, and an innervate)

I'm not sure if #3 will be true for all fights, because I've been feral for a while now, but normally you can switch a few trinkets if needed for extra regen.

With the haste buffs and Gift of the Earthmother, it doesn't take much haste rating at all to hit the 1 second GCD cap for lifebloom, rejuv, or wild growth.

Stacking crit over haste gives you much more healing done. A critical heal will give you 150% of your normal healing done, and an additional 30% (of the 150%) after the next time they take damage. This means a critical heal now does 195% of the normal healing done (assuming that target is attacked within 15 seconds). It also gives you 0.5 seconds of cast time off your next non-instant spell within 15 seconds (Nature's Grace Proc).

That's why I believe haste won't be worth much value to trees at all. Crit definitely seems to be worth much more now, as we have 5 spells which benefit from it (Healing Touch, Nourish, Swiftmend, Regrowth, and Lifebloom's bloom).

Im going to have to agree, and Ive been pondering this for some time, but i really think crit is deffinitly a needed stat for resto druids now.. haste not so much, just because of talents alone. For my current spec (living seed, HT glyphed + talents, swiftmend glyph etc etc) having a Regrowth, HT, nourish, swiftmend or LB crit is just awesome. I dont really see a need for haste any more, other than it coming with gear you have.. if i have a choice with gear Im probably going to chose crit over haste...

Now with that said, i think gemming will be the same as BC... spell power/spirit, all other stats just come with gear, since Blizz is stacking tons of it on a lot of items.

Farahota · 11/25/08, 1:51 PM

So can we get a ETA on some resto numbers or some one let me know how to make thise numbers, i have been useing rawr but it doesnt have alot of the gear in it, no its helpfull in most cases but not on all

Kuruk · 11/25/08, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

If you're talking from a moonkin perspective, that's news to me. Rawr.Moonkin has been Lich King-ready since, well, Lich King. Adoriele and I worked together to get the math somewhere in the neighborhood of correct, and so far it seems to be working out.

I am sorry that is an oversight on my part. I looked at the "we're not done yet" bit and heard somebody moaning about it not being finished, hence assumed so, while it does indeed state that Rawr.Moonkin is fully functional when you scroll a bit further down. *blush*

klüger · 11/25/08, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Alerian

Starfire is a better spell when you're having mana issues since it has better damage per mana spent. While yes, you may get a higher number of critical hits using a lower-cast-time spell, you'll also get a higher number of non-critical hits, so I would not recommend using the Moonkin Form proc as a basis for casting rotations.

Since you are asking about raiding, I'm not sure why you are having mana issues in 25 mans. Two Replenishment providers should be more than sufficient. I do have mana issues at times in 5 mans, but in those cases I switch to a Starfire-only spam and still do decent-enough-for-a-5-man dps.

Gearing for crit is very expensive, stat-wise. Usually as you get raid gear, you'll acquire more than enough crit. I currently only have 0.1% more crit than you do at the moment, based on your Armory profile (I also noticed that you only have 91 +hit, whereas you had mentioned you were hit capped, so maybe the Armory doesn't have your normal raiding gear set).

Picking up the new Emblem gear is a good way to go. The trinket, off-hand, and leather items are all very good and will help you up your spell power and your crit simultaneously. All of the leather spell power gear in Naxx has either haste or crit on it, so you will pick up more of those stats as well (although I am aiming for cloth for my non-T7 slots to prevent having to have only +hit gear in my trinkets, amulets, MH, and OH slots).

Ok, I will take your word (plus what else I've heard) for the starfire case. I did a little testing of my own(no, nothing statistically significant) but for one manabar I was higher on dps/total dmg done for a manabar with an IS-wrath->sf@eclipse->is->wrath rotation then a mf->starfire->wrath@eclipse rotation.

The problem with mana in 25mans is that even with all the regen there, I still manage to burn myself completely empty. My only explanation is too low spirit (200unbuffed) and not very high int (650-700ish unbuffed).

Well in general I do need gearing up ofc, I'm aiming for the emblem item that replaces my shittiest item first etc.
It was just a flash to my (then) undergeared sp in ssc/tk. Being stone cold dry for the last 15-20% of a bossfight is retarded, and makes me feel sooo worthless :\

edit: about the armory, yes thats not my raidsetup. I did some heroics and use that one for that (doing more hit for bosses). I tried to get on earlier but couldn't due to discing @ loadingscreen 5x for some reason. Ill fix asap