Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 60

Orin · 07/10/09, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tronn

I asked the same question some weeks ago and was told that it's really imba. Sure, not everyone goes for it, but it seem's to be a nice feature for throughput as other options would be more Crit and Revitalize of which I think is just "fun" support because it does not help mitigate any damage. It's just for Aggro (Tanks), manareg (Caster/Healer).

Revitalize - Spell - World of Warcraft

Read the description. Even if you only consider the mana regen, if you look in the other threads here and various WoL and WWS reports you will see that this is a quite powerful raiding talent and certainly not just for fun like you say.

Alerian · 07/10/09, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Grebe

So i have a question for all you moonkins out there about the Hodir fight, I am trying to increase my spell damage in order to compete with other classes and yes i know it is benificial to stand by the fires or light beems to get the buffs but should i change up my spell rotation to increase my damage? I currently use IFF,IS,MF,wrath till eclipse proc tne spam starfire now i find this quite difficult to manage as you have to be constantly moving to get the ice buff off of you. Should i just cut out IS and MF all together? Also should i be stacking my haste gear or crit gear?

For Hodir, use a Lunar rotation, but only refresh IS and MF while moving (and you want to minimize movement as best you can). In your situation, I would recommend using more haste gear if the haste item is otherwise similar in quality to the crit item (similar spell power).

bludwork · 07/10/09, 12:54 PM

We have a boomkin that consistently does low dps every fight. I've almost never seen her break 4k dps and looking for some help from experienced owls on what she might be doing wrong. Player in question is Kyreene, and WWL parse for

mimiron World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
general World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

even a simple tank and spank fight like ignis World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

any help greatly appreciated

• Hamlet · 07/10/09, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Alerian

For Hodir, use a Lunar rotation, but only refresh IS and MF while moving (and you want to minimize movement as best you can). In your situation, I would recommend using more haste gear if the haste item is otherwise similar in quality to the crit item (similar spell power).

Why recommend haste gear over crit gear? Haste is slightly less useful than usual due to Starlight, and crit is massively stronger than usual due to Storm Power.

Also, to the person who asked, you should start making a priority of being near Toasty Fire so you don't have to move.

Hawkon` · 07/11/09, 7:53 PM

PvE Resto Healing priority.

So, I've just rerolled druid and I've been wondering what spells I should use, spam and not use as a resto druid, I've got the two BiS trinkets (SP stacking 10X/spirit stacking 10x), should I start with regrowth, wild growth, ..? Help would be appreceated

Tronn · 07/12/09, 4:36 AM

Originally Posted by Orin

Revitalize - Spell - World of Warcraft

Read the description. Even if you only consider the mana regen, if you look in the other threads here and various WoL and WWS reports you will see that this is a quite powerful raiding talent and certainly not just for fun like you say.

As far as I can tell, this (18/0/53) should be the usual spec for resto druids for maximum heal output. There are three talent points you can spend elsewhere if you choose not to spec Living Seed. I don't think that Revitalize is more useful than Living Seed in any case.

Unfortunately, there is no thread for resto specs. I wonder if I should start one. What do you think?

[edit]

Originally Posted by Hawkon`

PvE Resto Healing priority.

So, I've just rerolled druid and I've been wondering what spells I should use, spam and not use as a resto druid, I've got the two BiS trinkets (SP stacking 10X/spirit stacking 10x), should I start with regrowth, wild growth, ..? Help would be appreceated

1st, I don't think that the Majestic Dragon Figurine, which you appear to have, is BiS. It's just nice for mana regen. For the rest ... Try yourself and come back with concrete questions.

Originally Posted by bludwork

We have a boomkin that consistently does low dps every fight. I've almost never seen her break 4k dps [...]

She's 1.6% over hit cap and there are one or two strange gems in her equip, but the rest fits nicely. Wrists and the 2nd ring should be exchanged quickly (mp5?!) and the supreme enchant on boots still is Tuskarr's Vitality, though this shouldn't be her problem. From the Ignis fight, I think that she's using the wrong rotation or uses Wrath at the wrong time. For more information about Moonkin rotation, read here and ask her, if she uses this rotation. I also recommend the moonkin addon SquawkAndAwe. Easy to adjust, easy to use, powerful for rotation organisation. My druid is worse equippt than her and does about 4k DPS an those training puppets in Orgrimmar (selfbuffed), so she should be about 4500, I guess, or at least on the same level.
[/edit]

Boevis · 07/12/09, 6:02 AM

While certainly not in the list for maximizing healing, Revitalize is a far sight superior in a raiding environment than the 3% haste from celestial focus. Certainly, if all you care about is topping healing meters as often as possible, CF is the way to go, but you're also rather fat (in the words of Pwyff) if that's all you care about.

Tronn · 07/12/09, 7:59 AM

Hm, that's strange. I sticked to Eddyqw who said on page 34:

Originally Posted by Eddyqw

[...]
For now, being haste capped is very valuable and if you don't have a shaman available, I'd hang on to CF.[...]

Ok, so Revitalize gives you a 15% chance to restore the target's energy (8), rage (4), mana (1%) or runic power (16). With Nature's Splendor, you get 6 ticks per Rejuvenation, which is 16.667%, so everyone get's a tick of Revitalize (average).

- I'd argue that warriors have almost no rage starvation in Ulduar, either as Arms, Fury or def. If they do, there's something wrong. I'm not sure about tanking bears, but, from my little knowledge, I'd say it's the same.
- 1% Mana, that's the amount Replenishment will restore in 3.2 every 5 seconds.Classes with almost no mana problems with Ulduar25 gear: Hunters, Warlocks, Paladins, Shaman (Enhancer), Priests (Shadow). Whereever those classes *with* mana problems should have those, you're entering Hard Mode level and as far as I can tell, you wouldn't seriously heal them with Rejuvenation during (sudden and hard) AE at XT's fight (example of our druid), Mimiron or Hodir. During the General's HM, the proc won't work, I guess, but haven't tested. What's left are - Counsil, Freya, Thorim, Yogg-Saron (I don't think we have to talk about *this* encounter *g*). I haven't healed Freya in HM, sorry for that. Thorim shouldn't be a mana problem, because it's over quite fast. The only one it could be useful is the Counsil HM, which is a very long and mana intensive fight where you could use Rejuvenation on a lot of people.
- Rogues will profit from the ticks with more DPS as well as Cats
- DKs should profit from the ticks in every spec as well

Following that, these three classes/specs (DK, Rogue, Cats) will be the only ones who can deal more DPS if they are "revitalized". I don't think this is a good reason to spend three points in Revitalise instead of 3% more Haste, espacially when you look at the math and realize that ~37.71% of your rejuvenation do not trigger at all.

SkagasmAddict · 07/12/09, 6:48 PM

Your selective quoting, Tronn, is borderline absurd...This is what he said:

Originally Posted by Eddyqw

Assuming you have the gear to reach the haste cap, I don't believe that speccing into CF is worth it - you should invest the points into the resto tree. For now, being haste capped is very valuable and if you don't have a shaman available, I'd hang on to CF.

You should have the gear to be haste soft-capped without CF by the time you're out of Naxx.

Originally Posted by Tronn

Ok, so Revitalize gives you a 15% chance to restore the target's energy (8), rage (4), mana (1%) or runic power (16). With Nature's Splendor, you get 6 ticks per Rejuvenation, which is 16.667%, so everyone get's a tick of Revitalize (average).

Revitalize also procs off of WG, which should generally always be on CD/ticking. So that's up to another 6 chances of Revitalize proc-ing per second. This change is what has made Revitalize a highly useful talent.

Originally Posted by Tronn

...as far as I can tell, you wouldn't seriously heal them with Rejuvenation during (sudden and hard) AE at XT's fight (example of our druid), Mimiron or Hodir.

I'm comfortable with calling your resto druid's parse "abnormal", especially for hard modes. It's generally accepted that maximum throughput for a resto druid is Wild Growth, Rejuvenation x5 (especially with 4pcT8).

Theodolit · 07/12/09, 8:42 PM

Simple question:
[Idol of the Shooting Star] vs. [Idol of the Crying Wind] which increase your dps more?
bb
Theo

• Hamlet · 07/12/09, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Theodolit

Simple question:
[Idol of the Shooting Star] vs. [Idol of the Crying Wind] which increase your dps more?
bb
Theo

Shooting Star.
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_2_ptr/

Eddyqw · 07/13/09, 4:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tronn

Hm, that's strange. I sticked to Eddyqw who said on page 34:

Originally Posted by Eddyqw

[...]
For now, being haste capped is very valuable and if you don't have a shaman available, I'd hang on to CF.[...]

<snip>

Of what you've quoted, the "if you don't have a shaman available" was extremely important. I believe I was replying to someone who runs 10mans with no Wrath of Air totem available, and in that case, CF is a viable choice.

Both then and now, I believe that CF is a foolish choice for anyone in a properly composed raid. You should be taking Revitalize - its a unique buff that only a resto druid can provide, and the mana returns on your healers (even if the casters don't need it) is not insignificant.

Not entirely sure what to make of that WMO parse - I can show you plenty of parses (example here - all Ulduar hard modes excl. YS and Alg, some clean kills, some very messy) where I've healed each hard mode with a vast majority of my healing coming from Rejuvenation. I don't think its the only way to do it, but I certainly think its the best, especially combined with Revitalize.

Edit: I just had a look at our IC kill. During that fight, I gained mana from:

Name	Count	Total	Notes
Replenishment	289	17,205 Mana
Innervate	20	15,735 Mana
Replenish	17	4,048 Mana	<- this is Revitalize
Mana Restore	6	3,600 Mana	<- this is the IED, generally considered an important source of regen
Lifebloom	3	1,469 Mana

4,000 mana on one of the shortest hard mode fights? Seems pretty good to me, especially when you consider that CF doesn't increase your output at all unless you use cast-time heals, which I try to avoid. Now consider the fact that isn't just 4k mana for me - its 4k mana for everyone I heal. Even if you decide you only care about rogues and healers, its still 20k mana (more than if you could use Innervate twice!) and some indeterminate amount of DPS.

Tronn · 07/13/09, 2:53 PM

Ok, let's break this down a bit. First of all, I'm running 10man without the totem.

Originally Posted by SkagasmAddict

Your selective quoting, Tronn, is borderline absurd...This is what he said:
You should have the gear to be haste soft-capped without CF by the time you're out of Naxx.

Revitalize also procs off of WG, which should generally always be on CD/ticking. So that's up to another 6 chances of Revitalize proc-ing per second. This change is what has made Revitalize a highly useful talent.

I'm comfortable with calling your resto druid's parse "abnormal", especially for hard modes. It's generally accepted that maximum throughput for a resto druid is Wild Growth, Rejuvenation x5 (especially with 4pcT8).

Second, I don't agree with you about haste soft cap. All the support I have in Ulduar10 is a retri paladan, because we have just an enhancer Shaman (and no frost DK, which I will check). I agree with you that for Ulduar25, "Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura" => "5/5 GotE = ~10.95% =~359 Haste Rating" should always be the cap. In 10man Ulduar, you won't have both buffs most of the time.

I missed to tell you our setup, which might be special is some ways: Warrior (def), 2-3 Hunters, me (tree of life), Priest (disc), Paladin (retri), Shaman (enh), 2 DKs (blood, I think), druid (feral). As you can see, our setup does not include Casters who could benefit from more mana ;-) Moreover, this is not a unique buff. I looked through my disc priest's talents and found out that Rapture does the same (multiplied with 2).

And, ähm, I don't know what you mean with "Rejuvenation x5"? Don't know what to do with that. And I doubt that Rejuvenation is the best spell to cast during XT's HM and the hard AE effect. The duration is too short for Reju to tick. You'd have to know when he casts the AE, and this is, unfortunately, no the case.

Eddyqw · 07/13/09, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tronn

Ok, let's break this down a bit. First of all, I'm running 10man without the totem.

Second, I don't agree with you about haste soft cap. All the support I have in Ulduar10 is a retri paladan, because we have just an enhancer Shaman (and no frost DK, which I will check). I agree with you that for Ulduar25, "Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura" => "5/5 GotE = ~10.95% =~359 Haste Rating" should always be the cap. In 10man Ulduar, you won't have both buffs most of the time.

I missed to tell you our setup, which might be special is some ways: Warrior (def), 2-3 Hunters, me (tree of life), Priest (disc), Paladin (retri), Shaman (enh), 2 DKs (blood, I think), druid (feral). As you can see, our setup does not include Casters who could benefit from more mana ;-) Moreover, this is not a unique buff. I looked through my disc priest's talents and found out that Rapture does the same (multiplied with 2).

And, ähm, I don't know what you mean with "Rejuvenation x5"? Don't know what to do with that. And I doubt that Rejuvenation is the best spell to cast during XT's HM and the hard AE effect. The duration is too short for Reju to tick. You'd have to know when he casts the AE, and this is, unfortunately, no the case.

I don't think you can 'disagree about the haste soft cap' - the soft cap isn't a matter of opinion, its a fact. The real question is how you're going to reach it, or if you're going to not bother. The fact that you only run physical-heavy 10mans is a huge factor - you should be taking CF, as the haste rating needed for being haste capped without WoA is not really feasible in 10man gear (it may be unfeasible even in 25man gear, but I don't have the link handy here, so I can't check).

Same goes for Revitalize - obviously its a talent that multiplies in power as it affects more raid members. You're correct that Rapture does the same thing (I'd forgotten that) but that doesn't make Revitalize any less powerful, because the two effects can and do occur at the same time - in effect, the buffs 'stack'. But again, being haste capped is more important, so without access to WoA, you should skip Revitalize in favour of CF.

As for "WG, RJx5", that means chain-casting according to that pattern - Wild Growth, then put Rejuvenation on five people, then Wild Growth again, etc. Obviously you'd only do that during periods of constant raid damage, like Iron Council, or Hodir's Frozen Blows. You say XT's raid damage is not predictable... I disagree. Tympanic Tantrum has a cooldown, and is usually used by the boss soon after coming off cooldown. Its not difficult at all to have Rejuvenation rolling on the entire raid (I'm talking 10man here) before the Tantrum hits, and then you can hit WG and either refresh Rejuvenations or use Regrowth/Nourish according to preference. If the boss decides to not use Tantrum immediately, then just keep refreshing the Rejuvs until he does... its not like they're expensive to cast.

Grizabella · 07/14/09, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tronn

Ok, let's break this down a bit. First of all, I'm running 10man without the totem.

I missed to tell you our setup, which might be special is some ways: Warrior (def), 2-3 Hunters, me (tree of life), Priest (disc), Paladin (retri), Shaman (enh), 2 DKs (blood, I think), druid (feral). As you can see, our setup does not include Casters who could benefit from more mana ;-) Moreover, this is not a unique buff. I looked through my disc priest's talents and found out that Rapture does the same (multiplied with 2).

And, ähm, I don't know what you mean with "Rejuvenation x5"? Don't know what to do with that. And I doubt that Rejuvenation is the best spell to cast during XT's HM and the hard AE effect. The duration is too short for Reju to tick. You'd have to know when he casts the AE, and this is, unfortunately, no the case.

You are doing it wrong. You are Kamara, is that right? If so, your spell priorities are off. RJ and WG should be your top healing done in almost every situation afaik. You have some odd gear on (PVPing maybe?), but generally you should wear more haste gear. You are running [Idol of Lush Moss], which is borderline useless these days (use [Idol of Awakening]). You don't need to use [Spark of Hope] unless you are actually having mana issues. (Again maybe this is your PVP setup, I dunno).

You got outhealed by your ret pally on the XT parse you linked... if you were spamming RJ the whole time and then casting WG as appropriate, that would not happen. In a 9-minute fight you only cast SM 5 times, surely you could have cast that more instead of some of those RG and Nourishes.

My advice is that you take our advice. Get 3/3 Revitalize too