Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 7

uliko · 11/25/08, 6:43 AM

With WoA totem you need 9.89% haste to hit the 1s GCD, without 15.38%.

Taudark · 11/25/08, 7:38 AM

To the question about gemming & enchanting bear gear. I'd go with either stamina, stamina/agility or agility/hit like before.

• Carpone · 11/25/08, 9:48 AM

How many ranks of Feral Aggression does it take to hit the AP reduction cap for bosses?

thedopefishlives · 11/25/08, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Kuruk

My simple question:

What resources are there out there, that you can utilise for min/maxing your character?

I know of Rawr but sadly it hasn't been fully updated for WLK yet.

Adoriele has mentioned above that the new DPS spreadsheet already exists. The original thread is locked however, and I couldn't find a new one. Could you please provide a link?

Anything else?

If you're talking from a moonkin perspective, that's news to me. Rawr.Moonkin has been Lich King-ready since, well, Lich King. Adoriele and I worked together to get the math somewhere in the neighborhood of correct, and so far it seems to be working out.

klüger · 11/25/08, 10:58 AM

At my decently shitty gear level (~1100spelldmg) capped-ish hit, 15% crit (in kin-form) and around 100ish haste, mana sustainability is my main problem.
Its actually so bad that I'm contemplating doing a wrath heavy rotation with the hopes that the increased returns from moonkinform (higher number of crits) will come out on top of a starfire-heavy one (Will test that tonight or tomorrow).
The rotation I'm looking at is: IS-Wrath till eclipse, starfire during eclipse and is->wrath again.

My main instinct as it is, is to gear for crit. After capping hit I am aiming to get as much crit I can due to both increasing dps and increasing manaregen. Haste is about the last thing I am aiming for at this moment.

The actual question:
At which point of crit/spellpower should I start valuing spellpower over crit? (haste still seems to be a while in the future for me).

The calculations seem to value spellpower too much, probably due to no manaproblems in 3.0 tbc.

This is with raiding in mind of course.

Alerian · 11/25/08, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by klüger

At my decently shitty gear level (~1100spelldmg) capped-ish hit, 15% crit (in kin-form) and around 100ish haste, mana sustainability is my main problem. Its actually so bad that I'm contemplating doing a wrath heavy rotation with the hopes that the increased returns from moonkinform (higher number of crits) will come out on top of a starfire-heavy one.

Starfire is a better spell when you're having mana issues since it has better damage per mana spent. While yes, you may get a higher number of critical hits using a lower-cast-time spell, you'll also get a higher number of non-critical hits, so I would not recommend using the Moonkin Form proc as a basis for casting rotations.

Originally Posted by klüger

My main instinct as it is, is to gear for crit. After capping hit I am aiming to get as much crit I can due to both increasing dps and increasing manaregen. Haste is about the last thing I am aiming for at this moment.

The actual question:
At which point of crit/spellpower should I start valuing spellpower over crit? (haste still seems to be a while in the future for me).

The calculations seem to value spellpower too much, probably due to no manaproblems in 3.0 tbc.

This is with raiding in mind of course.

Since you are asking about raiding, I'm not sure why you are having mana issues in 25 mans. Two Replenishment providers should be more than sufficient. I do have mana issues at times in 5 mans, but in those cases I switch to a Starfire-only spam and still do decent-enough-for-a-5-man dps.

Gearing for crit is very expensive, stat-wise. Usually as you get raid gear, you'll acquire more than enough crit. I currently only have 0.1% more crit than you do at the moment, based on your Armory profile (I also noticed that you only have 91 +hit, whereas you had mentioned you were hit capped, so maybe the Armory doesn't have your normal raiding gear set).

Picking up the new Emblem gear is a good way to go. The trinket, off-hand, and leather items are all very good and will help you up your spell power and your crit simultaneously. All of the leather spell power gear in Naxx has either haste or crit on it, so you will pick up more of those stats as well (although I am aiming for cloth for my non-T7 slots to prevent having to have only +hit gear in my trinkets, amulets, MH, and OH slots).

mandala · 11/25/08, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Diameter

I was surprised when I was modeling resto gear in rawr that all the best gear had crit rating on it instead of haste. I was modeling with a 25 man raid in mind covering all the buffs.

So, assume the following are true:
1. You have WoA totem and 3% haste from Imp. Moonkin/Ret Aura.
2. Your talent spec includes 5/5 Gift of the Earthmother, 3/3 Nature's Grace, and 3/3 Living Seed.
3. You have enough regen to last whatever fight you are doing (from gear, buffs, a potion, and an innervate)

I'm not sure if #3 will be true for all fights, because I've been feral for a while now, but normally you can switch a few trinkets if needed for extra regen.

With the haste buffs and Gift of the Earthmother, it doesn't take much haste rating at all to hit the 1 second GCD cap for lifebloom, rejuv, or wild growth.

Stacking crit over haste gives you much more healing done. A critical heal will give you 150% of your normal healing done, and an additional 30% (of the 150%) after the next time they take damage. This means a critical heal now does 195% of the normal healing done (assuming that target is attacked within 15 seconds). It also gives you 0.5 seconds of cast time off your next non-instant spell within 15 seconds (Nature's Grace Proc).

That's why I believe haste won't be worth much value to trees at all. Crit definitely seems to be worth much more now, as we have 5 spells which benefit from it (Healing Touch, Nourish, Swiftmend, Regrowth, and Lifebloom's bloom).

Im going to have to agree, and Ive been pondering this for some time, but i really think crit is deffinitly a needed stat for resto druids now.. haste not so much, just because of talents alone. For my current spec (living seed, HT glyphed + talents, swiftmend glyph etc etc) having a Regrowth, HT, nourish, swiftmend or LB crit is just awesome. I dont really see a need for haste any more, other than it coming with gear you have.. if i have a choice with gear Im probably going to chose crit over haste...

Now with that said, i think gemming will be the same as BC... spell power/spirit, all other stats just come with gear, since Blizz is stacking tons of it on a lot of items.

Farahota · 11/25/08, 12:51 PM

So can we get a ETA on some resto numbers or some one let me know how to make thise numbers, i have been useing rawr but it doesnt have alot of the gear in it, no its helpfull in most cases but not on all

Kuruk · 11/25/08, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

If you're talking from a moonkin perspective, that's news to me. Rawr.Moonkin has been Lich King-ready since, well, Lich King. Adoriele and I worked together to get the math somewhere in the neighborhood of correct, and so far it seems to be working out.

I am sorry that is an oversight on my part. I looked at the "we're not done yet" bit and heard somebody moaning about it not being finished, hence assumed so, while it does indeed state that Rawr.Moonkin is fully functional when you scroll a bit further down. *blush*

klüger · 11/25/08, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Alerian

Starfire is a better spell when you're having mana issues since it has better damage per mana spent. While yes, you may get a higher number of critical hits using a lower-cast-time spell, you'll also get a higher number of non-critical hits, so I would not recommend using the Moonkin Form proc as a basis for casting rotations.

Since you are asking about raiding, I'm not sure why you are having mana issues in 25 mans. Two Replenishment providers should be more than sufficient. I do have mana issues at times in 5 mans, but in those cases I switch to a Starfire-only spam and still do decent-enough-for-a-5-man dps.

Gearing for crit is very expensive, stat-wise. Usually as you get raid gear, you'll acquire more than enough crit. I currently only have 0.1% more crit than you do at the moment, based on your Armory profile (I also noticed that you only have 91 +hit, whereas you had mentioned you were hit capped, so maybe the Armory doesn't have your normal raiding gear set).

Picking up the new Emblem gear is a good way to go. The trinket, off-hand, and leather items are all very good and will help you up your spell power and your crit simultaneously. All of the leather spell power gear in Naxx has either haste or crit on it, so you will pick up more of those stats as well (although I am aiming for cloth for my non-T7 slots to prevent having to have only +hit gear in my trinkets, amulets, MH, and OH slots).

Ok, I will take your word (plus what else I've heard) for the starfire case. I did a little testing of my own(no, nothing statistically significant) but for one manabar I was higher on dps/total dmg done for a manabar with an IS-wrath->sf@eclipse->is->wrath rotation then a mf->starfire->wrath@eclipse rotation.

The problem with mana in 25mans is that even with all the regen there, I still manage to burn myself completely empty. My only explanation is too low spirit (200unbuffed) and not very high int (650-700ish unbuffed).

Well in general I do need gearing up ofc, I'm aiming for the emblem item that replaces my shittiest item first etc.
It was just a flash to my (then) undergeared sp in ssc/tk. Being stone cold dry for the last 15-20% of a bossfight is retarded, and makes me feel sooo worthless :\

edit: about the armory, yes thats not my raidsetup. I did some heroics and use that one for that (doing more hit for bosses). I tried to get on earlier but couldn't due to discing @ loadingscreen 5x for some reason. Ill fix asap

ninor · 11/26/08, 4:43 AM

This might be a silly question, but do cloaks with bonus armor (green armor) have a portion of that armor as base armor that get's multiplied by Dire Bear, Thick Hide etc.? And if they don't, wouldn't that make cloaks with such bonus armor inherently worse for tanking than those with just base armor?

• Caniki · 11/26/08, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by ninor

This might be a silly question, but do cloaks with bonus armor (green armor) have a portion of that armor as base armor that get's multiplied by Dire Bear, Thick Hide etc.? And if they don't, wouldn't that make cloaks with such bonus armor inherently worse for tanking than those with just base armor?

The base armor of a cloak should be getting modified by the bear multipliers, while the rest of the armor will simply be added on. At least, that's how I'm interpreting the recent blue posts on our armor changes.

The base armor of an ilevel 213 cloak is 154 armor.

Logros · 11/26/08, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by uliko

With WoA totem you need 9.89% haste to hit the 1s GCD, without 15.38%.

And that would be 324 haste rating?
Hmm, what's the calculation with Imp moonkin aura? Does anyone have the forumlae for this stuff so I can calculate it? I just can't find the numbers I need to do it on my own, and nowhere to model it.

Arg, why doesn't Rawr show haste rating instead of always converting to %, and why doesn't it allow Wrath of Air/Moonkin in the buffs. Makes modeling this difficult.

tylanthea · 11/26/08, 1:15 PM

Did anyone else notice that Earthliving (Shamans' Earthliving weapon proc HoT) gets eaten by Swiftmend?

hoffmand9 · 11/26/08, 3:14 PM

I've searched a ton in EJ and a bunch of other boards looking for the answer to my holy grail:

If I want to DPS for my guild and do as much as possible, am I better off as moonkin or feral? Basically, which does more DPS currently and which has better scaling for future content?

I'm worried that feral's wont scale just like in TBC.

I've seen WWS of ferals (amazing gear, journey's end etc.) breaking 4k but I've also seen WWS of moonkins breaking 4k in much worse gear. I've also seen one or two moonkins breaking 5k on WWS.