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Old 12/02/08, 12:13 AM   #121
tylanthea
Von Kaiser
 
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Tylanthea
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by Playered View Post
Only happens if Riptide(!) or another of our HoTs is on the target but it will indeed consume the puny Earthliving if it is the lowest duration on the target for a pathetic <3k heal.
I've tested this and it just requires Earthliving to be on the target.

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Old 12/02/08, 9:52 AM   #122
Taloren
Banned
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eredar
Spec speculation, general questions.

As a lover of feral druid tanking, I have a few questions I'd like to throw out to improve myself as a tank. I am by far the 'best' there is, and while I hope these questions are appropriate to ask, feel free to let me know if these dont belong in the forums here. This is my first post so it might be a bit lengthy and I am going to repost in the sticky for general questions as this might be an inappropriate place to reply.

As WotLK has been out for several weeks now, I have a lot of speculation as to what is the most viable, efficent tank build for druids.

You have your druids who go 2/2 in Primal Precision, 2/2 in Brutal Impact...You have your druids who go down to 2/2 Master Shifter; some go into Intensity, Omen, Naturalist. Some only put 5/5 Furor and tell the Resto tree to buzz off and go ape nuts in Feral everywhere.

What *is* the best Feral tanking spec? Opinions are welcome to me, but would prefer reasoning as to why you support your 'best spec' opinion.
All the specs I have seen each have great benefits to them. The master shift for more damage, naturalist has more damage (which one would believe helps increase threat), Intensity is nice, but do we really need that extra rage? In trash pulls it seems like I never have enough rage unless I'm chain pulling with rage saved up. Even with !cancelform and enrage. I tend to use Maul Mangle a lot to keep up with my heavy hitting dps, but is the talent points worth it and perhaps its a matter of the gear I choose has more damage reduction than necesary for what it is. ( I.E Heroic gear vs Raid gear... too much armor can be a bad thing in heroic trash). Is Primal Precision worth the 2 points? So far I have found a nice bit of gear (blues, epics and the trinket that has 109 AP and chance to proc 200+ expertise rating), therefore should one really waste 2 points for 10 expertise rating? Improved bash - is it worth 2 points? Yeah longer bash *is* nice, and cooldown reduction is nice, but is there something points can be better spent on. I feel I'm starting to beat a dead horde....horse...on this subject, but I think the general point was made.


Next...What are reasonable ways to avoid these "mistakes:"
Personally, my two biggest mistakes in druid tanking is "Skull target" is usually getting pounded and people catch up very fast on threat - is this just the way it is because dps arent really paying attention, or do most druids have this issue, but by the time they get to "X" (2nd target) they have 30K threat already and its smooth sailing? My "rotation" consists of FFF, DR if its several targets, otherwise I find it a waste of initial rage, Mangle, Lacerate x 3, and include maul when rage is 50 or higher.

2nd problem for me - For those who have wrath and have tried tanking (i.e Violet Hold or Nexus) - what do you do when the mobs that are blinking all over the place just generally doing whatever they want, and your DPS just randomly splits dps and targets different mobs? You've used CRoar, and swiping, but the DPSR already has more threat and continues splitting dps and generally, growl is every 8 seconds, so you still have 2 mobs doing whatever they want.... what is the way to cut down on this? I really never have too much of a problem keeping Melee mobs *ever,* but casters always seem to give me a problem - is it coordination, is it lack of skill or is this something that most druids find themselves struggling w/ as a tank without concecration or thunderclap? Personally if any one dps has a mob of any kind attacking them, I feel like I'm not doing MY job, especially if they die.., but if you're AOE is on CD, the mobs are so spread out they dont come into your swipe, and two mobs are on two different DPS'rs how in the world do you cut this down? Bash one, mangle/ lacerate the other hoping for threat? It seems nearly impossible if you figure there is still another mob (or more in some cases) attacking you and one person is still tearing him down, so in essence, you should be using Mangle/Lacerate on that mob because swipe isnt going to do enough threat (when the dps is split like that from the start) to keep them all on you - this is assuming Beserker is down, for the record. Simply put when there are a ton of spread out casters and NO CC, how do druids with Beserker on CD and mobs too far out of range for a good hearty swipe (*and dps who go ballsout one second into the pull), keep them off of the DPS'rs (who are no doubt aoeing!)?

Last but not least, I did notice some posting with "Numbers" but as I'm mathmatically challenged, I do kind of need a idiots version:
At the end of BC, druids with 19-21k HP, 35k Armor, 50%+ dodge with 3k+ AP were the bomb diggity (on my server). These numbers are an approximation... easy to heal, could withstand Supremus bolts, decent threat, etc. But with the nerfage of Agi to dodge, the introduction to Expertise-o-rama, off the charts amount of HP, what general starting stats would a feral druid want to go into say Naxx, and Heroic Nax? My dodge seems horredous (sp*) right now, but I have 30 K HP, around 231 Expertise with 88 hit, and 23-24K Armor - this is with MotW only not using Primal Precision, or trinket procs. I was really hesitant to start tanking heroics the day I turned 80 yet I still had decent stats from my new blues and old epics and so far I have been able to tank a lot of stuff with a decent pally healer behind me.

I think this sums up my questions for now. Basically looking for some decent feedback with factional reasoning behind it. This is kind of a last resort posting because I have looked thru the forums here, and else where trying to get answers with facts versus answers based on opinions that are generally wrong, and have no real reasoning behind them. Again, I apologize if this is somewhere else and I overlooked it. Thanks.

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Old 12/02/08, 10:38 AM   #123
Diameter
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Taloren, as far as format goes for your post, I would have broken it up into several posts.

1 post in Tanking talent build for your Feral Spec questions.

1 post here regarding your "mistakes"

1 post in http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t36963-f...aid_tank_gear/ for your gearing questions.

I'd also avoid posting in the Feral Questions? thread, as I believe we should either have 1 thread for all spec (our current situation), or 3 different threads stickied for SQ/SA on the various roles we play.


As far as specs go, I tank with the spec you have shown in your armory. I'd be happy to answer your questions via private message about exactly why I chose every talent point, but I'm trying to stick to the thread intentions which is to give a simple answer. Your talent build (0/60/11) focuses on mitigation with most of the dps talents which gives you flexibility to dps at about 90% of the dps a cat spec would give you.

When I'm rage limited starting a pull, I always start with FFF, then mangle the first target if I have enough rage. If not, I wait a second for the other mobs to get there and use swipe. This is important because you never want your healer to have aggro. Normally once the mobs reach me, I'll have enough rage to do whatever I want, so I use swipe for every GCD and maul as well. With the maul glyph, you should have nice aggro on 2 targets, and decent aggro on the rest. If you want to maximize your threat on other targets, you should change targets but realize you may need to move around some as you may not always be in melee range of your target. If that's the case, you will be generating no threat as your swipe and maul target will be out of range.

To answer your second question, in VH I usually try to swipe after about 10 seconds so that I catch any mobs that come out of the portal. I'm trying to think of a situation in Nexus where it's difficult to control mobs. The only cases I can think of are the non elite lashers and the non elite ghosts near the warp rift boss. Both of which have very few hit points which shouldn't be a problem.

I'd recommend going to the link above for all your gearing questions. There are some really nice guides there for gearing for Naxx and Heroics.

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Old 12/02/08, 11:12 AM   #124
Deliverance
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by WoW-Guru View Post
Is there something I'm missing? Do i fail at simple math? I can't figure out why I'm getting alot less dodge from agility than the theorycrafter claim i should get.
WoW-Guru, diminishing returns isn't something that only cuts in when you get close to 50%, it just accelerates in diminution (awful terminology - pardon me) the higher it is. In practice, no matter how low your dodge from non-base stats and talents is, you will never actually get the dodge-per-agi that is listed in the table post-DR since no matter how little, it will be reduced by the formula. At 35% dodge, 10% of which is from talents, I assume, you are already being quite significantly affected.

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Old 12/02/08, 12:37 PM   #125
Fang273
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Thunderlord
Just a quick question. Most feral tanks I've seen both in game and on armory seem to stack stam on everything possible. Normally I would say they're doing it wrong, but I've literally only seen one druid with agil gems so far. So, my question is, is stacking stam at all more beneficial than gemming/enchanting for agility when you have enough health to survive the mob's burst? I realize it helps reduce overheal, but that seems more dependent on the healer than anything.

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Old 12/02/08, 1:10 PM   #126
 Caniki
Crayon in Brain
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Fang273 View Post
Just a quick question. Most feral tanks I've seen both in game and on armory seem to stack stam on everything possible. Normally I would say they're doing it wrong, but I've literally only seen one druid with agil gems so far. So, my question is, is stacking stam at all more beneficial than gemming/enchanting for agility when you have enough health to survive the mob's burst? I realize it helps reduce overheal, but that seems more dependent on the healer than anything.
Talk to your healers, find out where they're comfortable. Except for very specific circumstances, I don't bother stacking lots of stam, and instead mostly gem for avoidance. After two weeks of Naxx25 and Heroics, I run about 35k raidbuffed, maybe a little more. For Patchwerk hateful soaking, I'm at about 45k. This works out well for my raidgroup.

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Old 12/02/08, 9:24 PM   #127
wabox
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Akama
I am looking for a macro that takes me out of cat form casts rejuvenation and put me back into cat form. It would save me time leveling.

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Old 12/02/08, 10:02 PM   #128
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by tylanthea View Post
I've tested this and it just requires Earthliving to be on the target.
My Swiftmend would look like it could be used when Earthliving was up but it would fail on cast when I tried, the only time it would actually fire off was when there was another HoT (Riptide or RG/RJ) on the target too.
I also had times when Swiftmend would consume both Riptide and Earthliving at the same time - odd.

Something is just annoyingly buggy around the whole thing.

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Old 12/02/08, 11:31 PM   #129
Janraea
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by wabox View Post
I am looking for a macro that takes me out of cat form casts rejuvenation and put me back into cat form. It would save me time leveling.
There is no such macro. Rejuv and cat-form both take a GCD, so there's no faster way to do this than to self-cast rejuv and then cast Cat afterward.

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Old 12/03/08, 4:10 AM   #130
Balino
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Hunter
 
Ravenholdt (EU)
Do any macros exist that coordinate bear/cat mangle, and bear/cat charge in 2 buttons? I now have to manually drag and drop these 2 skills every time I switch forms. Needless to say this is very inconvenient.

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Old 12/03/08, 4:17 AM   #131
Foxe
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Terokkar
Originally Posted by Balino View Post
Do any macros exist that coordinate bear/cat mangle, and bear/cat charge in 2 buttons? I now have to manually drag and drop these 2 skills every time I switch forms. Needless to say this is very inconvenient.
From an earlier post in another thread:

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:1] Feral Charge - Bear
/cast [stance:3] Feral Charge - Cat

Guessing you can just replace Feral Charge with Mangle... if that answers your question.

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Old 12/03/08, 4:23 AM   #132
pluhi
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Originally Posted by Balino View Post
Do any macros exist that coordinate bear/cat mangle, and bear/cat charge in 2 buttons? I now have to manually drag and drop these 2 skills every time I switch forms. Needless to say this is very inconvenient.
I think you should try action bar paging (automatic bar switching on certain conditions). You can set up paging for forms and prowl too. This way you get dynamic key bindings.

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Old 12/03/08, 11:59 AM   #133
Janraea
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by pluhi View Post
I think you should try action bar paging (automatic bar switching on certain conditions). You can set up paging for forms and prowl too. This way you get dynamic key bindings.
I use action bar switching, but if I were a serious pvp'er, I'd use macros instead. The action bar takes some amount of time to switch, and that adds a few tenths of a second (on a slowish computer) to anything you'd be able to do on the other bar immediately. Switching to catform, that's pretty much just trinkets, but switching to castform and hitting cyclone, heal, or any number of other skills needs to be as instant as possible. I get around it by keeping a bunch of caster skills on my cat bar, but I have 3 keybound action bars - any less and it's tough to fit all the skills you need in.

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Old 12/03/08, 3:29 PM   #134
wabox
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Akama
Originally Posted by Janraea View Post
There is no such macro. Rejuv and cat-form both take a GCD, so there's no faster way to do this than to self-cast rejuv and then cast Cat afterward.
Is there anyway with the other types of heals?

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Old 12/03/08, 3:38 PM   #135
 Adoriele
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by wabox View Post
Is there anyway with the other types of heals?
Show me a heal that doesn't incur the GCD, and you'll get your macro.


So, no.

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