Feral questions? - Page 11

a civilian · 11/28/08, 6:02 PM

Worship provides 21*5/2*(rip uptime)*(other modifiers, e.g. mangle and naturalist) damage per second. Ravenous beast provides 203*1.2*(other modifiers)*(1+1.2*crit)*(1-armor mitigation)/(mean time between shreds).

Suppose 100% rip uptime, 50% crit, 30% armor mitigation, and 5 seconds between shreds. Ignore "other modifiers" like mangle and naturalist, assuming that they're the same for shred and rip. Then worship provides 52.5 dps and ravenous beast provides 54.6 dps.

I'm not sure what the actual armor mitigation values are for level 80. 5 seconds per shred seemed to be a reasonable value when not keeping up mangle, based on my own log parses (a small sample, since I end up tanking for at least portions of most boss fights).

Beace · 11/28/08, 6:54 PM

Any idea how [Idol of Worship] compare to [Idol of the Raven Goddess] in the average 25-man raid (say 3 tanks and 7 melee dps)? I'm using mangle instead of shred, so [Idol of the Ravenous Beast] isn't an option at this time, but I'm not sure what's best of the first two.

a civilian · 11/28/08, 8:47 PM

Assuming 100% rip uptime, worship is worth 21*5/2*1.3*1.1*1.03*1.02 = 78.9 damage/second (multipliers are mangle, naturalist, ferocious inspiration, blood frenzy respectively). Note that the 100% rip uptime assumption could be a significant overestimate depending on your cycle.

Raven goddess now gives 0.44% crit. If crits are double damage and people have ~40% crit chance, then this is worth ~0.31% damage. Often crits are more than double damage, or crits also trigger effects that increase damage (e.g. flurry, seal fate, primal fury), but also there are abilities that are not affected by crit. Let's assume the idol is worth about 0.35% physical damage for the raid. You then need 78.9/0.0035 = 22.5k physical dps for raven goddess to surpass worship. If tanks do 2000 dps and damage dealers do 3500, then your 3 tanks and 7 melee are doing 30k dps, enough for raven goddess to be worthwhile.

Beace · 11/28/08, 10:26 PM

Thank you. I had kinda hoped I could get rid of raven goddess completely, but it seems maybe not. Specially considering physical raid dps is only gonna go upwards, while the benefit from Idol of Worship remains static.

foxglove · 11/29/08, 12:25 AM

Has anyone confirmed whether Raven Goddess is raid-wide? LoTP is raid-wide, but that does not guarantee that the bonus is. Even with raid-wide buffs, some things still seem to be party-only (Aspect of the Pack comes to mind).

Beace · 11/29/08, 4:12 AM

To me it seems fairly obvious it is. The idol affects the spell/aura, and the spell/aura affects the whole raid.

I just went to check in game. The character screen reports a 5.44% crit increase from lotp, to people in raid but not in my group.

Rawhide · 11/29/08, 9:57 AM

Hello all, as you can see, this is my crowning post. I have been an avid reader for quite some time and finally feel as if i have learnt enough to join in with these discussions.

I was wondering if any discussion has started regarding the Cat trinkets yet, as I'm the fortunate position of equiping any one of the following [Figurine - Emerald Boar] [Mirror of Truth] and [Meteorite Whetstone].

I cant get my exact stats as i'm in work and i logged off in bear gear last night, but in cat form im sitting at about 8k AP 40% crit and 120ish Hit.

I have seen notes that the Mirros suffers a long internal cooldown, but i wondered if the crazy buff offset that.

Sorry if there is an open discussion on this, and could you point me to is as I have clearly been defeated by the search sytem.

iammrfluffy · 11/30/08, 5:01 AM

In terms of kitty pve dps, what is the new pot to use? Are speed pots better than insane strength?

Beace · 11/30/08, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by iammrfluffy

In terms of kitty pve dps, what is the new pot to use? Are speed pots better than insane strength?

Between those two pots, it's 120 str vs. 500 haste rating. Judging by the values Rawr gives me, speed potion should be about twice as good as insane strength potion.

david0925 · 11/30/08, 7:47 AM

Speed potions are going to be better than Strength potion just because there is such a huge number difference. Despite the fact that strength is about twice as good as haste, the haste potion gives more time 4 times the rating.

For the argument of the idol, for those that have raided Sunwell, Idol of White Stag or Idol of Terror is going to remain your best idol because your 4 piece and 2 piece will give you better results than even if you best in slots for all of those slots from currently existing epics. Doing a Rip/Roar/occasional FB "rotation", Mangle accounts for roughly 27% of my damage, and rip roughly 25%. This means the -5 energy gives me roughly a 1/.85= 17% damage boost to mangle (85% came from 29/34, which is the percentage of energy saved from Mangle, dividing that into 1 translate it into damage; the math might not be 100% accurate, but it should be intuitive enough). 0.17x 0.27= ~4.2% of total damage. 4 piece is 15% boost to ~25% of my damage (even completely ignoring FB), which comes out to be ~3.8% of total damage. As a result, 4 piece bonus is going to account for ~8% of total damage for my personally. Using rawr, assuming all other slots are best-in-slot, using 4 piece (shoulder, bracer, belt, boots) over other best-in-slot 10-man/heroic gear, nets me about 100dps. Using 4 piece + best in slot for 25/heroic gear nets me about 50 dps. While it can be seen that the gear gap will eventually overcome the bonus from 2/4 piece t6, unless others have different numbers/results from Rawr, 4 piece T6 is going to stay for quite a while.

Mielikinna · 11/30/08, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Hello all, as you can see, this is my crowning post. I have been an avid reader for quite some time and finally feel as if i have learnt enough to join in with these discussions.

I was wondering if any discussion has started regarding the Cat trinkets yet, as I'm the fortunate position of equiping any one of the following [Figurine - Emerald Boar] [Mirror of Truth] and [Meteorite Whetstone].

I cant get my exact stats as i'm in work and i logged off in bear gear last night, but in cat form im sitting at about 8k AP 40% crit and 120ish Hit.

I have seen notes that the Mirros suffers a long internal cooldown, but i wondered if the crazy buff offset that.

Sorry if there is an open discussion on this, and could you point me to is as I have clearly been defeated by the search sytem.

Hey,
I'm primarily a feral dps for my guild, and I'm a big fan of [Mirror of Truth] and [Grim Toll]. The new hit cap is 295, which suggests that the hit rating from [Grim Toll] is probably more valuable to you. Until you do get it, I suggest [Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood], although your [Figurine - Emerald Boar] is also a good option.

Diameter · 12/01/08, 10:14 AM

Edit: Nevermind, read the other thread where Astrylian states Mongoose is the best enchant for bear. Just wanted to note it here.

kalbear · 12/01/08, 5:55 PM

On Polar gear vs. not - while having 40k HP is a good thing in a number of places, it's not clear to me whether it's necessary to get the Polar gear in order to achieve that. I'm not convinced that 45k health is better than 40k health at the current level of gearing, and while it's nice I don't believe that it will make you particularly easier to heal or survive all that much.

It will make your survival instincts very impressive though.

Also, the ilvl of the armor doesn't matter currently in terms of overall armor gained; you'll gain as much if not more armor from the agility on the ilvl 200 armor pieces than you would on the 213 armor pieces. We're talking about 60 armor a piece after multipliers. When the patch hits it'll be closer to 120, but even then it's not a huge deal. The polar chest works well because there's simply not that many good chests pre-naxx, but it loses badly to the T7 chests. The belt is still not as good as the heroic one. The boots may be the best of the slot; you're basically trading about 50 stam for 20 agi, and that's hard to turn down - at least until pvp boots arrive.

bean81782 · 12/01/08, 6:40 PM

Could someone break down how armor is supposed to work on cloaks after the armor change? I have been playing with Rawr today looking at items that may be better after the change for neck/back/finger/trinket slots and they all seemed to work fine with the 3.0.4 armor mode except for the back slot. Is all of the armor on a cloak being multiplied in bear form or only the base armor or none of the armor?

What might the math look like to get the total bear armor of a cloak post change?

Sevyvia · 12/01/08, 6:51 PM

I know that the EJ forums aren't the place for this kind of question, but I really am stumped. I've searched all sources, googled for an hour, even written a post on the EU Druid forums. What priority of abilities do other bear tanks use? I've been a healer all of my 3 years in WoW and just specced Feral yesterday. I have an alright kit considering the time I've been Feral, but so far I've had to focus on stamina just to get to a reasonable level for heroics. I'm now at 28,2k hp unbuffed and 34% dodge or so, and I'm not dying in heroics. I haven't had healers complain at me at all, but looking at Omen, DPSers with a clue and a modicum of gear seem to be catching up with me all the time, or hot on my heels.

What can I do? Naturally I use Mangle on every cooldown, and at first I threw in 2 Lacerates before the next Mangle. I'm beginning to feel like that isn't enough, and Maul does seem to be doing rather sick damage, so is it better to use Mangle and Maul, and then just keep Lacerate on the current mob for the sake of Rend and Tear?

Again, I apologise for a newbish post here, but all other sources have left me no more knowledgeable. My Expertise Rating is 223, but my Hit Rating is only 33. I'm not looking for a 10 page essay here, just.. A short paragraph on which priority which ability has, or even a rotation if there is one.