Duilliath

Did you force a Metagem or are you trying to hit a gem slot?

An thenn tehy wuz al ded. Srsly. (Exodus 1)

 

darkeminence

Yes, this is with every buff on Rawr enabled except scrolls, and other non important effects. The only reason I'm confused is because Toskks' DPS Method says you need 11000 AP, or whatever it is, fully buffed, but excluding Savage Roar for hit to be > str. I'm nowhere near that amount without Savage Roar, so either Toskk is wrong, or Rawr is wrong.

EDIT:

Yes, this is with Metagem requirements enforced, and going to Tools -> Set Default Gems for Equipment, and then selecting a gem and sorting by DPS, every color lists the Hit/Expertise gems higher than the Str ones.

 

Rawhide

I have a question about our new cravings for strength stacking, with SR up I'm sitting at about 10.6k Ap iirc and have around 43% crit with just MOTW, I'm Almost fully Naxx 10 geared ( only keeping 2 pieces for the Bonus) with just rings, trinkets and a few small dps upgrade pieces left to get until we go 25 Man. Me here, I have managed to break 4k dps and touch 5k on a few occasions in Naxx 10 and have been generally happy.

However yesterday a Mainly Badge geared druid joined our guild, he was well enchanted and is also a JC but I noticed that he had 16 or 27 AGI gems in every slot I had a 16 or 27 STR gem in. We ran a few heroics and he was out DPSing me by a small margin. Theres no doubt that he knows how to play cat well, but it got me worrying that I have done something wrong somewhere as I have superior gear.

Is it just simply that I'm better built for the Raid fights or have I overlooked something ? He was using a mangle Rotation where as i was favoring Shred.

Also when Toskk recommends 11000 AP before switching back to AGI slotting, is that AP with SR up ?

 

darkeminence

That's probably the result of a mangle rotation on trash mobs, which allows you to gain 5 CP faster to FB and SR. Don't worry, Str is still better than Agility.

Also, Toskks' calculations are before savage roar, but fully raid buffed

 

Duilliath

There ya go. Need the yellow for your meta gem.

--

Rawhide, don't bother with 5mens, really... With so much of our damage coming from bleeds, being able to spam Mangle + FB will be better than a proper rotation.

An thenn tehy wuz al ded. Srsly. (Exodus 1)

 

darkeminence

I'm sorry, I wasn't quite clear enough. I was just using the gems as an example of the circumstance. Rawr values Hit and Expertise at 1.2, and Str at 1.07. With that said though, I'm inclined to believe rawr. However, this means that either Toskks chart is wrong, or rawr is wrong, which is something that should be looked into.

 

• Daboran

To be honest if you're that close, it's all within the probability that the RNG is favouring one or other of you with crits.

I've had real issues keeping up the maximum rotation (5cp SR, Rake, 5cp Rip) consistently - I'd much prefer keeping a higher crit rate if I can and for the armor items that you need to share with your tanking gear to me it's a no-brainer to go with agility until you have a seperate dps item for that slot. I've not come across any situation yet that requires so much threat that I need str gems in Bear gear.

I still can't get rid of the nagging feeling that the double points from crit specials (and crit in general) is more valuable that the hard calculations actually show.

 

Allev

I think this might be a problem of Rawr being too "right" rather than being wrong. Unless it's been changed (since this is 6-months-ago knowledge it might have), my understanding was that Rawr estimated the exact value of the next point of a stat. Often, this leads the "next point" to suffer from rounding issues. Rawr works like this because this is also how rounding is handled in-game; sadly, when gear is changing frequently, you don't want to see those. So, my first guess is your hit, expertise, or strength is on the edge of one of these rounding errors. Is a point of AP worth approximately half of your STR? Is a point of crit worth approximately a point of hit, or expertise?

Are you using the newest version of Rawr (2.1.4 or later)? There was a model update for a bug post-2.1.3.

Is your DPS similar in both models? Is it significantly lower in Rawr? (Did you remember to fill in your talents?)

 

darkeminence

All my stats match up, I am specced properly, and using the latest version of Rawr. The stat rounding seems to be the issue. It looks as if my gear is just at the point where a couple points of hit or expertise are better than strength, but only a few points. If i follow rawr and gem 3x 27 hit, it tells me str is better. When i gem 3x 27 str it brings str up a bit in points, but hit/expertise are still better. When I gem 2x 27 hit 1x 27 str then str becomes higher than hit/expertise, so it seems like it just wants me to grab a few points of hit for str to be better.

Also, I found out that I had armor values wrong (2k off, don't know why), which somewhat skewed it more in str/expertise's favor, but they were still far better than strength when I fixed it to be the right number.

 

manapaws

To copy and paste a blue post:

Assuming 'all melee' includes catform druids, there's only two ways they could make haste more beneficial to us.
1) Play with Omen proc rate.
2) Increase our base white damage or tinker with our haste % : haste rating ratio.

Doing the former would perhaps be more fun, but could result in a net damage reduction post pvp-burst complaints. Would doing the latter affect our weightings for all of our other stats to the extent we have to theorize our optimal rotation/ability-priority, again?

To be honest, I was under the impression armor penetration was the less desirable stat for us due to rake/rip being bleeds.

 

Korhaug

Actually, no. ArPen affects white damage, mangle and shred (and ferocious bite), which together account for roughly 50% of our damage. Haste affects only white damage, which accounts for roughly 25% of our damage. Haste also increases the frequency of Omen procs, but if those are shreds (which they should) they also benefit from the ArPen.

I think the part about "all melee" indicates that other melee classes are deriving more benefit from ArPen, while still finding haste largely useless. This will be the case with any class that gets a lot of their damage from specials which deal armor-mitigated damage.

 

Rugrud

3. Make haste increase energy generation?

 

Duilliath

I like that option, but somehow I have my doubts they'd be really inclined to implement different mechanics for Rogues/Druids (energy) and Warriors/Death Knights ("rage") or Hunters/Paladins/Shamans (mana).

I can see it work not unlike the replenish option though and it would help sustain mana-users through longer fights.

An thenn tehy wuz al ded. Srsly. (Exodus 1)

 

coldbear

I just thought of a bit of a no-brainer.
Assuming you have a few macros you use regularly when tanking and only when tanking, put

/cancelaura Heroism

somewhere in it, should make you less likely to parry-haste-gib yourself. I highly doubt this is something smarter people than I haven't thought of already, so why isn't it more widely known or is it just not a very big deal at all?

Author of "Every Boss In The Game" (3.0.9), "100 Dead Death Knights", "Fun In Ulduar", "Guide: How To Feral DPS" videos:
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?t=3&l=parl2001

 

◊ Brade

I don't consider canceling Heroism / Bloodlust to have that large of an impact on parry haste, plus the extra agro from the additional attacks doesn't hurt.

In 40 seconds you get 16 normal attacks and 26 global cooldowns.
Bloodlust / Heroism over 40 seconds changes this to 22 normal attacks and 26 global cooldowns.

Basically, you get in 6 more Mauls.

 

Melthu

If you're that concerned with getting parries you could just stop attacking. Of course you need to do something to hold threat, so you can fall back on just using your highest threat per attack ability. Which is Maul, which happens to be the only ability we have that is affected by haste anyway, so cancelling Heroism doesn't get you anything. Considering the fair amount of dps that tanks can do now you're probably more likely to cause a wipe by not attacking and extending the fight than you are by opening yourself up to extra parries.

 

Muck

I have a few macro questions here:

Is it possible to make the following macro:
If I press it without modifier, it casts Mangle - Bear with !Maul. If i press it with modifier, it only casts Mangle - Bear.
This would be nice for pulling.

Also I have troble with the following macro:

/cast Lifeblood
/use 13
/use 14
/cancelaura Enrage
/cast Survival Instincts
/cast Barkskin
/cast Frenzied Regeneration
/use Fel Healthstone

ect...

I want to use it as an emergency button, but It stops at Barkskin and won`t cast FR because of the GCD. When spamming the button, an error appear with "Spell not ready" (probably because of Barkskin). Is there a way to skip spells which are on CD?

And now I have the following:

#showtooltip Mangle - Cat
/cast [stealth] Pounce; Mangle - Cat
/startattack

How can I change this that it will only startattack if you aren`t in stealth. Because in this way the autoattack will break my stealth.

 

Hinalover

I JUST hit 80 on an alt that I never played at 70 and feel refreshed tanking instead of DPSing all of time as a mage. I've been talking to my guild's top Feral Tank about what to expect but planning on Pre-Naxx gear has kindof consumed me right now.

1) This has probably been answered before but I just want a clarification about the armor changes in 3.0.8. Am I correct that The armor Multiplier DOES NOT work with Rings, Trinkets and Weapons? But it does work with any other gear including cloaks? I've been using RAWR 2.1.4 to see what I should be aiming at and I really don't know what my Armor is going to be come patch.

2) The other problem I'm having and it sounds like its a general Feral thing, but what is the best way to tank multiple mobs? Is it just Swipe and maul and if need be Berserk+mangle?

 

charriu

Have you tried /stopmacro [stealth] after the /cast line?

 

Muck

Ah, I forgot that I can put the conditions after the action... that would make thinks easier.

 

kalbear

1) The armor multiplier from dire bear form, survival of the fittest and thick hide does not work with any armor on rings, trinkets, necks or weapons. It also does not work on any bonus armor on cloaks and leather gear, but does work on the base armor of cloaks and leather gear. Rawr has a bug in it currently with respect to cloaks so that it does not calculate the base armor of the cloak correctly, but other than that it should be correct.

2) Swipe + Maul is the standard one; the hardest part is positioning and dealing with caster mobs. Typically with a caster group I either try and LoS it (this is difficult in LK as there are simply not that many places to LoS mobs) or feral charge/swipe. Try alternating around the mobs so that each one gets a maul or two. Make sure to have glyph of maul as well. Berserk/mangle suffers from basically being an improved maul; if there are three targets, great, but if not you'll start losing threat compared to simply swiping. You can use a hurricane pull to pull the mobs, but the threat isn't all that significant; use it when you cannot get close to the mobs quickly and will be taking a few hits that the healers must heal.

 

Aajax

I haven't seen any discussion so far concerning [Idol of Worship] when compared with
[Idol of the Ravenous Beast] .

Does anyone have any data comparing the raw dps value of each idol?

Is there certain situations in which one should be used over the other?

 

◊ Abradix

Idol of Worship is worth 105*1.3*1.1 damage every 3 seconds, or a 50 DPS increase. Idol of th Ravenous beast is worth 203*1.3*1.2*1.1 = 348 bonus damage per shred. Bosses have 13083 armor, which is reduced to 7883 after sunder + Fearie Fire, which is around 40% damage reduction.

Assuming a crit rate of 40% (which is very easy to attain with starting gear, and for most people here it's probably closer if not over to 50%) we still end up with an average of 321 bonus damage per shred, meaning you need to shred every 6.5 seconds or more to make Idol of the Ravenous Beast better then Idol of Worship. On top of that it scales with both Armor Penetration and Crit, and Idol of Worship doesn't scale with anything, so the better your gear gets the bigger the gap will be between Ravenous Beast and Worship.

 

halmmar

Actually, Rip ticks every 2 seconds, so the DPS increase is ~75 DPS. If you keep up Mangle, Rake and Rip, the Rip Idol will be better (because you can't spam shred).

 

◊ Abradix

I should probably be in cat form more often, you're right. Redoing the math with 2 second per rip tick instead of 3 shows that you need 100% crit and more then 15% Armor penetration for Ravenous Beast to beat Worship, which is probably never. It still scales better then Worship, but doesnt overtake it until you reach impossible gear levels.