I have a question about glove/cloak enchant. I currently have agility there but Rawr recommends me to use armor enchants. So is armor better than agility now after nerf or does Rawr overvalue armor?

Defense not, only the crit reduction part. Well, there's not much more (miss/dodge), and that's why it's way inferior to raw dodge or agility. Resilience however is mostly useless.

@ callmesweety
if you hybrid cat/bear i would go something more like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft assuming aoe isnt too big an issue

It doesn't exactly overvalue it, but 240 armor is probably better than 20 agi if you're going for pure survival. The primary reason is the default damage that Rawr assumes, which is pretty high; against things hitting for 80k pre-armor, even small amounts of armor do well.

I've noticed that if you don't pay attention to your gear or if you are simply unlucky with drops you can end up with a surplus of hit or expertise (coming from a pure dps standpoint not tanking).

So given that, with the new levels of gear and the fact that it's almost impossible to not be swimming in hit and expertise, would it be a viable option to drop primal precision?

Typically speaking with gear, you either get hit, expertise or both on it, regardless of what you want. Even without gemming for hit/exp it's incredibly easy to hit the needed amounts. 80% refund on a finisher that doesn't land isn't going to matter if you are hit capped and can remove dodges from the table.

Gear like [Chestguard of the Recluse] provides nearly HALF the expertise needed to pull dodge off the table. On top of that with the changes to armor penetration many people are talking about grim toll being the best trinket to use.

I guess I'm also curious if anyone else is running into this issue of "abundance of exp/hit" and how they are managing it.

Have to tell you I've seriously been thinking about dropping that talent because its getting really hard not to be capped. Pretty sure at the moment its not advantageous to drop it and get hit/expertise cap since it does take a little work to be capped in both (especially without the 10 expertise the talent gives you) but potentially for the next raid instance.

This is something I've been having issues with and upon looking deeper into the whole gear setup I have I realize I'm defficient in quite a lot still wearing 10 man Naxx equipment in some slots and only have Grim Toll and possibly the Valorous Shoulders as the "best in slot" items from Pre Ulduar.

So the question is with the gear on my Armory right now (I'll try to log off in Feral spec for the next few days) is it reasonable to be able to get above the 5k mark? I've come extremely close a few times and this is not including fights like Thaddius or Loatheb with rather large damage boosts or guaranteed crits.

My best dps in a 25 man raid was 4900 even on a single boss, as well I managed to get 4300 on Sapphiron last clear which was honestly a surprise seeing as you have to disengage for a good 10 seconds and that messes with feral rotation.

Basically the question is am I able to get above the 5k mark with the gear I have now by switching a few things around like enchants and gems or is it just up to better gear? I realize I have a lot of progress to do gear wise as I've only raided as Feral since dual spec came in and had a somewhat strange collection of offset gear from healing. Keep in mind I dont have +10 stats or massacre just because they're too damn expensive to use on an item I hope to upgrade shortly.

edits- spelling

@Dokidoki I'm currently swimming in hit, sitting at 370, with no hit gems or enchants.

To drop a bit, I tried upgrading [Boots of the Neverending Path] to [Boots of Captain Ellis]. Seemed like a clear upgrade:
-66 Hit
-14 Agi
+28 AP
+43 Crit
+55 Haste

I know this is anecdotal, so please bear with me, but in a few sessions with a training dummy with each pair of boots, i seemed to consistently lose ~125 DPS using [Boots of Captain Ellis], which surprised me. I may be missing something and my proto-testing may simply be invalid (if so, please put this post out of its misery), but I'm wondering if perhaps a high amount of hit:
a) can bring unexpected benefits on its own, or
b) has an interaction with ArPen

I've looked around on EJ and elsewhere but haven't seen anyone proposing such an odd idea.

Having too much hit being beneficial? Interesting.. the only thing I can think of, that would cause such a thing with your boot changing situation, is that with that much hit rating, you have the combat table all 'screwed up' to give you more crits than it would normally.

But then again, that's a completely uneducated guess from me.

I was trying to see what sort of gear combination from my drops would give me the best DPS, using Rawr, and the gear set it optimized to has me at 75 hit rating, with gemming purely for agility (except to meet the meta req). My question is: is this right? Being ~150 hit rating below cap, and even then, it's reporting hit to be much less useful, point for point, than agility. I'd always thought that hit below yellow cap was well worth capping. I was thinking of testing dps before and then after changing my gear, but I got too many upgrades and too much gear changed for me to make an accurate assessment. There's gear upgrades I'd like to see drop that would re-increase my hit rating, but for now what to do?

Assuming rawr is still running SR/Rip by default (meaning no FB), you don't need any hit rating at all because your cycle isn't very tight at all, meaning the chances that you get "hit screwed" (last second of mangle/rip/rake refresh was missed, for example) is very low. Aside from that, missing/dodging just cost you a GCD and 20% of the attack's energy, which really isn't a big deal compared to other stats.

When you move on to running FB every 1-2 cycles with 4 pt8, i would expect the cycles to become a lot tighter that misses are going to matter a lot more. However, both of these cases are just intuitively speaking: I am not 100% sure how the math will play out.

It's been said a few times that [Furious Gladiator's Staff] is out of budget, and will probably be fixed. I suspect it's stats will be halved.

I don't think all the stats will be halved - just the agility. Compare with [Furious Gladiator's Pike], which has the same stats and ilvl, except AP instead of agility.

You need to look at more than just dps - you need to see what's actually going on, as damage done is variable, and you're probably not collecting enough data for it to be anything more than anecdotal. I'd suggest using WWS or recount or the like to see if you're missing at the lower hit rating (I doubt it). If you aren't, the extra hit rating isn't doing anything for you, and the variance you saw is just random noise.

In regards to the "swimming in hit and expertise", I have not personally found that to be the case. I'm currently not close to the hit cap nor am I soft capped on expertise, even with 2/2 Primal Precision (although I'm very close), having most of what I want from pre-Ulduar raiding. I think it's quite possible to find gear (well, modulo luck of the drop) that lets you make full use of those talent points. Of course, for tanking, there's no question, as the soft cap is much less important.

Regarding the posts about "swimming in hit (and/or expertise)"

For the first time since Ulduar came out lastnight I loaded up Rawr and had a look at what possible upgrade paths I had available to me. A lot of the best in slot gear does not have hit/expertise, and I can certainly see myself holding on to a few decent +hit/exp items in my bank as I upgrade in case I need to juggle my gear around. Some slots seem to have nice options between hit/exp/vanilla stats like belt and boots, but for slots like neck, bracers, and some of the tier slots the clear winners do not have hit or expertise.

@ m9spd: The reason why you are so far over the hit cap is not because of Ulduar gear, sure your new shoulders have hit, but your head, neck and boots are inferior to even some pre-Ulduar gear and you could definitely afford to lose a couple of them for non-hit pieces.

AoE trash pulls rotation.

Was wondering what you guys did for dps as far as AoE pulls go. I seem to be horribly low on these and it destroys my overall damage...any advise?

Yea, was feral, sorry about that. I just cant figure out when to quit swiping and switch to single target.

Was also wondering if we are simply weak at AoE damage. Are other DPS classes designed to smoke us in this aspect?

With Naxx AoE trash we obliterate every other class (huge number of adds with small health). During longer pulls, we're just about average since we have to reapply SR.
3 targets is about the cut-off point for kitty AoE.

We can still blow away other classes with kitty swipe. However, they changed the damage cap to 10 mobs now. After that the damage will be reduced.

When do you stop swiping? Never. Ok, Sometimes. Generally 19 seconds of SR is enough, or close enough that it's better off swiping more to hit the ~3 extra mobs that are up that won't be up in the 6 seconds it takes to reapply SR and swipe again. On Freya, Thorim, or other multiple high HP elites, I usually swipe til just before SR drops, Rake while still under SR and wait for full energy, SR and repeat.

As I posted on my guild's forums, Druids go from possibly the most complicated single target cycle, to basically brainless 1 button mashing on AoE after the initial Rake-SR-Swipe-TF-Berserk.

Personally I find myself single targetting quite a lot of trash in Ulduar due to high health and them pulling in 2's like all that linked groups of 2 trash outside of Ignis. Much more single target trash pulls in Ulduar for a kitty as opposed to Naxx where you could be only half paying attention and spamming swipe, one thing I do for trash just for the fun of it is if I know we're more than 3 minutes out from the next boss or an important single target trash pull I'll throw a tiger's fury followed by berserk then go nuts.

Either way you really shouldn't be worrying about massive aoe trash pulls in Naxx for how your aoe is because as long as you're doing passable dps it's fine. Raid leaders are going to realize (hopefully) that trash is lower dps for some and inflated for others and generally discard it when looking at your numbers. Again hopefully.

Well at least I guess its heavily positionally based to think about if its moving adds. Cat swipes min 5 yd range is so incredibly annoying though and wish they at least increase it to an 8 yd range. Really makes me curse to myself on things like Freya's Detonating Lashers where they are constantly moving.