As I am a resto druid, I have a question for you ferals! On General Vezax, we used to hit the boss with melee for OoC proc's. They removed this from the encounter. So this:
Do feral druids still get clearcasting procs from Omen of Clarity?
edit: This is all since 3.2, with the general 9 million health nerf.
Yes, I still got OOC procs in cat form. Either they eliminated procs in tree form or tied it to a certain talent, like Corrupted Wisdom.
Is it better to go for broke and attempt to get as close as possible to hit / exp even at the cost of downgrading gear? Or if an item is obviously better should I ignore hit / exp cap for the time being?
Example: If I equip [Belt of the Tortured], my hit/exp is 230/119, or I can drop the hit and put on [Waistguard of the Creator] (I put ArP gems in all slots ATM till I hit soft cap). Until the 10 XT hardmode bracers drop and I don't loose them (I've missed them twice already >.<) that's a pretty big hit drop...
I also have some old Naxx gear still for hit / exp, but I really doupt that it's worth it.
I keep Belt of the tortured on for raiding, but put creator on when I log, so while raiding pre-food I have 467 ArP atm.
EDIT: Never mind the gear specific part. Still on topic though, how close do you think we should get our hit / exp to cap and to what extent would you downgrade gear to hit those numbers?
Since my druid is focused on bear form and not cat form, he doesn't need armor penetration or haste rating as much. The degree to which I'd take lower Item level gear over higher item level is partly dependent on the presence of stats which I care much less about. I'm not sure what stats would matter less to a cat form druid - probably the only thing would be to take a higher agility lower stamina piece over a lower agility higher stamina piece of a slightly higher level.
Also from what I've been reading,feral kitty druids don't need to get the exact cap for hit or expertise right. But how much hit can we spare to lose? Where is a good place we should shoot for before gemming armor penetration? Thx a bunch
Also from what I've been reading,feral kitty druids don't need to get the exact cap for hit or expertise right. But how much hit can we spare to lose? Where is a good place we should shoot for before gemming armor penetration? Thx a bunch
Isn't the Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket be a better enchant at lower gear levels, I've never seen it mentioned on these forums. With the hyperspeed accelerators you get one extra attack a minute correct? (12 seconds = 12 attacks * 13% increase = 13.6 attacks or something on that order, i assume it rounds down because you can't have half an attack) While the hand mounted pyro rockets give you an average of 2449.33 damage a minute ((1654+2020)/2=1837 average damage*1.33333 because the cooldown is only 45 seconds = 2449.33 damage per minute) So doesn't that mean that the hyperspeed accelerators are only better if your average white hit is above 2449.33? Where am I doing my math wrong?
Has blizzard hinted at how they plan to rework bear tanking with the expansion and the changes in regards to no longer having attack power on leather items? I don't really see how they can balance the ap through agility without having to rework agility as a whole in the large scale. If they gave 2 ap per agility in bear as a means to make up for the straight ap that was previously placed on items, then the agility which was also there previously will cause a bloat. However if they only give 1ap per agility we will be on the lacking side for ap.
I'm sure they have a plan for it but are we looking at a massive change to the way agility works or are they just going to make some talent which all feral druids will forever be required to have for a working bear form? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere else I didn't see anything on the wow forums that I could find.
Has blizzard hinted at how they plan to rework bear tanking with the expansion and the changes in regards to no longer having attack power on leather items? I don't really see how they can balance the ap through agility without having to rework agility as a whole in the large scale. If they gave 2 ap per agility in bear as a means to make up for the straight ap that was previously placed on items, then the agility which was also there previously will cause a bloat. However if they only give 1ap per agility we will be on the lacking side for ap.
I'm sure they have a plan for it but are we looking at a massive change to the way agility works or are they just going to make some talent which all feral druids will forever be required to have for a working bear form? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere else I didn't see anything on the wow forums that I could find.
They've already said that 1AGI = 2AP. There's really no reason to postulate about this now though. Wait until a PTR is up before you start worrying much.
Ok here's my issue. Before 3.2 I acquired Mjolnir Runestone, and reached the trinket softcap for ArPen, and life was simple. However, now that there is theoretically alot more ArPen available to us, I'm hearing talk of dropping the ArPen trinket and stacking passive ArPen. I just acquired the Lupine Longstaff which puts me over the trinket softcap, so I need to decide if I should A.) re-gem some ArPen gems to Agi, so that I'm not wasting stats when my trinket drops, or B.) replace my Mjolnir Runestone with Banner of Victory and start stacking passive ArPen. If I were to go with option B, I would be at 853 passive ArPen(with food buff).
Ok here's my issue. Before 3.2 I acquired Mjolnir Runestone, and reached the trinket softcap for ArPen, and life was simple. However, now that there is theoretically alot more ArPen available to us, I'm hearing talk of dropping the ArPen trinket and stacking passive ArPen. I just acquired the Lupine Longstaff which puts me over the trinket softcap, so I need to decide if I should A.) re-gem some ArPen gems to Agi, so that I'm not wasting stats when my trinket drops, or B.) replace my Mjolnir Runestone with Banner of Victory and start stacking passive ArPen. If I were to go with option B, I would be at 853 passive ArPen(with food buff).
Thanks for taking the team to read this post.
I did a few simulations with FeralbyNight about this matter. My results were that until ~875 ArP without the Banner is better to keep the Mjolnir. Take it with a grain of salt until someone else can confirm this.
Also, near 875 ArP, I get better dps with ArP gems with the Mjolnir, even if is over the soft cap by a great margin. But the dps gain is only ~1 dps per epic gem, and near the soft cap Agi gems are better than extra Arp gems so is hard to tell at what level you'll want to regem to Agi or keep Arp gems.
After browsing Armory for a bit, I've noticed you can stack Siren's and Nightmare's Tear. Now my question is, with epic gems available, would it still be worth it for like a 6 agi bonus?
For it to be worth it, ignoring any value of stamina, 6 agi from the gem, 6 str from the gem, and 6 agi from the socket bonus would have to be better than 20 arpen, which it isn't at all. At least with enough armor pen, a 15 sta/10 arpen gem wins out over a siren's tear if you really wanted the stamina or had an amazing socket bonus.
I am trying to figure out if Armor Pen is worth it with 3.2.2 coming out where the soft cap is harder to hit.
Its quite annoying to have to regem with every new piece of gear I get. I am still using my Grim Toll since the runestone does not drop for me. I would like to just drop all Armor Pen gems and gem straight agility from now on. Anyone know anything about this and know if it is that big of a DPS drop.
Ran some Rawr tests, and it says its about the same dps now. Hitting 2500 agi fully buffed in combat having Idol of Mutilation giving me the 200 agility.
I will need to replace Grim Toll with with Banner of Victory if I can.
Anyone else try not dealing with Armor Pen anymore and seeing a drastic drop in DPS?
I'm looking for a way to give myself a big, obvious counter or other indicator showing whether I've applied 3 Shreds to my Rip. For other buffs and debuffs I use addons like MSBT and Power Auras to give myself big "Hey Stupid!" notifications, but I've never been able to do this for Glyph of Shred, since the only apparent effect on the Rip debuff is that its duration goes up, regardless of whether one has applied one or three Shreds.
Hello, I found a somewhat large discrpency in data between the 4 major DPS Module programs (Tokks, FBN, SC, and RAWR) So I ask you guys what is the most accurate program to find DPS values for items relative to current gear, and which program is the most accurate in DPS output.
I'm looking for a way to give myself a big, obvious counter or other indicator showing whether I've applied 3 Shreds to my Rip. For other buffs and debuffs I use addons like MSBT and Power Auras to give myself big "Hey Stupid!" notifications, but I've never been able to do this for Glyph of Shred, since the only apparent effect on the Rip debuff is that its duration goes up, regardless of whether one has applied one or three Shreds.
Anyone have a suggestion?
I found feralbynight and badkitty to work pretty well for all of the above just turn off the "move suggestion" if your not big into addons playing the game for you as I am
Hello, I found a somewhat large discrpency in data between the 4 major DPS Module programs (Tokks, FBN, SC, and RAWR) So I ask you guys what is the most accurate program to find DPS values for items relative to current gear, and which program is the most accurate in DPS output.
As I understand it, FBN and SC run actual simulations of a character in combat, which will be more accurate; whereas Tossks and Rawr use mathematical models to predict DPS based on a "typical" encounter. The disadvantage of using simulations is that you have to run a lot of them to predict things that will be overall or consistent upgrades, whereas you can count on a model to give you the same answer for the same set of initial conditions without all the real-world-like noise of a crazy streak of parries or crits (what the cool kids call "RNG high" etc.).
However, in most cases, you should get similar answers from all four. If you don't, something interesting is going on. If you're being told that an ilvl 200 item is better than an ilvl 258 item, be suspicious. If one tool is telling you that ArP is a better gem stat and another is telling you to gem for agi, that's more interesting. If the simulators are giving you one answer and the models a different one, run more simulations or adjust the initial conditions of the models to see if you can find out why.
For me, it really comes down to features. Rawr is by far the most sophisticated and user-friendly when it comes to actually assembling and comparing different gearsets, so I use Rawr mostly. SC is a commandline utility, so that makes it require a bit more effort than looking at the item you want and clicking on it. Etc. Edit 4: A particular strength of Rawr is that it can find synergies in gearsets that take much longer to find with simulations. (The most obvious example is set bonuses, but it goes way beyond that.)
Edit:
Originally Posted by BruddaIz
I found feralbynight and badkitty to work pretty well for all of the above just turn off the "move suggestion" if your not big into addons playing the game for you as I am
Thank you, I will give it a look. I've always liked the helpful data from the FBN project, but resisted an ingame addon for exactly the same reason you mention.
Edit 3: One way to get theoretically good answers is to use two things together. For example, take initial information from some simulations, plug it into Rawr, find some guesses as to good sets with Rawr, and then plug those back into simulations to see if the simulations agree.
However, in most cases, you should get similar answers from all four. If you don't, something interesting is going on. If you're being told that an ilvl 200 item is better than an ilvl 258 item, be suspicious. If one tool is telling you that ArP is a better gem stat and another is telling you to gem for agi, that's more interesting. If the simulators are giving you one answer and the models a different one, run more simulations or adjust the initial conditions of the models to see if you can find out why.
...
For me, it really comes down to features. Rawr is by far the most sophisticated and user-friendly when it comes to actually assembling and comparing different gearsets, so I use Rawr mostly. SC is a commandline utility, so that makes it require a bit more effort than looking at the item you want and clicking on it. Etc. Edit 4: A particular strength of Rawr is that it can find synergies in gearsets that take much longer to find with simulations. (The most obvious example is set bonuses, but it goes way beyond that.)
Great post-- but I thought I'd comment a little bit here.
The "synergies" of gearsets which Rawr finds can be misleading. When I say that, I don't necessarily mean "wrong", but you must understand how it happens. Any "calculator" follows the premise of estimating an average-case, then multiplying it out to the full length of the fight, as opposed to a simulator, which takes multiple random runs. So edge cases-- such as crit-streaks and no-crit streaks, are improperly approximated. For instance, you could get enough CP for a FB every cycle ON AVERAGE in Rawr, but in reality you get exactly enough CP 50% of the time, too little 25% of the time, and you waste some 25% of the time.
When you get to magical points where such things happen, i.e. you get a certain haste rating which estimates the number of OoC procs you get which makes a new cycle possible in the calculator, you see a huge jump in the value of haste rating (or a piece of gear with haste on it) according to the calculator, whereas when playing the game, you don't see the similar jump (and in fact, might not even adjust your cycle the way Rawr assumes you will!)
You're 100% right, though, when you say Rawr is the most easy to use-- but I feel like it's also the one that's wrong most often. I trust SimulationCraft the most (as I've looked over its code more than the others), FbN is as accurate but limited if you don't compile your own code and cycle changes aren't easy to orchestrate.
Great post-- but I thought I'd comment a little bit here.
The "synergies" of gearsets which Rawr finds can be misleading. When I say that, I don't necessarily mean "wrong", but you must understand how it happens. Any "calculator" follows the premise of estimating an average-case, then multiplying it out to the full length of the fight, as opposed to a simulator, which takes multiple random runs. So edge cases-- such as crit-streaks and no-crit streaks, are improperly approximated. For instance, you could get enough CP for a FB every cycle ON AVERAGE in Rawr, but in reality you get exactly enough CP 50% of the time, too little 25% of the time, and you waste some 25% of the time.
When you get to magical points where such things happen, i.e. you get a certain haste rating which estimates the number of OoC procs you get which makes a new cycle possible in the calculator, you see a huge jump in the value of haste rating (or a piece of gear with haste on it) according to the calculator, whereas when playing the game, you don't see the similar jump (and in fact, might not even adjust your cycle the way Rawr assumes you will!)
You're 100% right, though, when you say Rawr is the most easy to use-- but I feel like it's also the one that's wrong most often. I trust SimulationCraft the most (as I've looked over its code more than the others), FbN is as accurate but limited if you don't compile your own code and cycle changes aren't easy to orchestrate.
The examples you give illuminate some of the odd behaviors I've seen with Rawr, thank you. (Like where one new item available suddenly makes Rawr equip an entirely different set. If there's an obvious explanation, like a powerful set bonus that's available, or a mathematical explanation that's been explored here on EJ, then I trust that recommendation; but if I have no idea why then I am skeptical.)
To my mind, it depends a lot on how one is using either tool. If you simply want to evaluate which set is better, A or B, then a simulator like SC is probably the better choice. However, if you use the simulator by taking stat rankings and extrapolating them onto a loot-ranking for an entirely different gearset, I think that's probably less accurate than Rawr.
The powerful thing about Rawr is its ability to compare lots of different gear options, which would take an impossibly long time with a statistically meaningful set of simulations for each. Edit: So a combination of the two seems like a good idea, at least for how I use them.
The most powerful aspect of Rawr is its optimiser. One must keep in mind that as gear changes, so do values applied to each stats. Set bonuses can make a big enough difference for example, that you should try out the optimiser to figure out your best gear set.
The most powerful aspect of Rawr is its optimiser.
Agreed.
Scale factors are fine provided that the alternate gear you are considering is reasonably close in quality to your baseline setup. However, if this is not the case then the accuracy of the localized scale factors start to break down. Once you start accept a little less accuracy, why not simply switch over to formulation to take advantage of its many benefits.
Performing true gear optimization with simulation is certainly possible. Obviously, the counter-example so often mentioned, simulating every gear combination, is not the way to do it. Starting with a gear set one can follow repeated scale factor generation to converge on something decent. Alternatively, one can build a multi-dimensional DPS surface via course sampling and interpolation. These tasks can be done in a "reasonable" amount of time, but only at the cost of accuracy. Once the accuracy advantage is lost, we must question the method.
Originally Posted by foxglove
One way to get theoretically good answers is to use two things together. For example, take initial information from some simulations, plug it into Rawr, find some guesses as to good sets with Rawr, and then plug those back into simulations to see if the simulations agree.
SimulationCraft will import a Rawr character save file via rawr=filename.xml
Just remember: If you see a large discrepancy in the DPS value, the problem could just as easily be in the simulator itself....
SimulationCraft will import a Rawr character save file via rawr=filename.xml
This is an amazingly useful feature. I had no idea it existed; I've been cloning my Rawr sets over by hand. It seems to me that when it's that simple it's definitely worth the trouble to run a Rawr gearset through simcraft once you've used the optimizer to make sure you get the same answer. If there's a big disparity, then it's a matter of looking for a reason or (as you say) a bug.
I couldn't find any direct statement on this, so here goes: I am wondering what the general opinion in regards to what the best profession for a bear is? I am thinking engineer (+885 armor on gloves and +1 agility from cloak enchant) and jewelcrafting (+63 stamina from gems) - with engineer being the #1 profession and jewelcrafting the #2 profession. Am I right or wrong?
Also, how good and/or bad is the inscription dodge shoulder enchant as a profession bonus compared to the 60-63 stamina many other professions give?
08/10/09, 3:05 PM
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