Feral questions? - Page 34

madmike253 · 04/26/09, 1:59 PM

Hey I was wondering about some tanking enchants/gear options. I'm primarily a healer but I just started to dabble in tanking for my guild. There are enchants with defense on them that rawr says are the best. Also some pieces of gear with resil which are much better than what I have. I was wondering how desirable defense rating and resil are for tanks, and could you please direct me to the numbers on how much crit reduction and all thiese stats provide? I assume that if we stacked enough resil/defense we could move some points out of SotF and into something else?

Callmesweety · 04/26/09, 2:44 PM

my guess is: dropping sotf is... ugh... bad.

psuman99 · 04/26/09, 2:48 PM

I am interested in the scaling values of stats on items for 3.1. I have seen several posts about it on these forums but I wonder if anyone has updated their models to reflect the actual armor penetration mechanics that Ghostcrawler recently posted in a blue post. The general consensus is that armor penetration is the top stat if you stack more than ~200 of it but a model I am looking at on Druid Wiki has agility still the top stat with crit being #2 and armor penetration being a very close #3 (ignoring strength since if given the choice you would take agility) even in cases where you stack a lot of armor pen.

kalbear · 04/26/09, 4:00 PM

madmike253, there is literally nothing else you could possibly take that would match up with what SotF gives you as a tank.

madmike253 · 04/26/09, 4:21 PM

So then defense rating and resil for a bear tank are 100% useless?

Fetkossa · 04/26/09, 5:24 PM

I have a question about glove/cloak enchant. I currently have agility there but Rawr recommends me to use armor enchants. So is armor better than agility now after nerf or does Rawr overvalue armor?

charriu · 04/26/09, 5:34 PM

Originally Posted by madmike253

So then defense rating and resil for a bear tank are 100% useless?

Defense not, only the crit reduction part. Well, there's not much more (miss/dodge), and that's why it's way inferior to raw dodge or agility. Resilience however is mostly useless.

Darwexn · 04/26/09, 10:03 PM

@ callmesweety
if you hybrid cat/bear i would go something more like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft assuming aoe isnt too big an issue

kalbear · 04/27/09, 8:41 AM

I have a question about glove/cloak enchant. I currently have agility there but Rawr recommends me to use armor enchants. So is armor better than agility now after nerf or does Rawr overvalue armor?

It doesn't exactly overvalue it, but 240 armor is probably better than 20 agi if you're going for pure survival. The primary reason is the default damage that Rawr assumes, which is pretty high; against things hitting for 80k pre-armor, even small amounts of armor do well.

Dokidoki · 04/28/09, 1:28 AM

I've noticed that if you don't pay attention to your gear or if you are simply unlucky with drops you can end up with a surplus of hit or expertise (coming from a pure dps standpoint not tanking).

So given that, with the new levels of gear and the fact that it's almost impossible to not be swimming in hit and expertise, would it be a viable option to drop primal precision?

Typically speaking with gear, you either get hit, expertise or both on it, regardless of what you want. Even without gemming for hit/exp it's incredibly easy to hit the needed amounts. 80% refund on a finisher that doesn't land isn't going to matter if you are hit capped and can remove dodges from the table.

Gear like [Chestguard of the Recluse] provides nearly HALF the expertise needed to pull dodge off the table. On top of that with the changes to armor penetration many people are talking about grim toll being the best trinket to use.

I guess I'm also curious if anyone else is running into this issue of "abundance of exp/hit" and how they are managing it.

Cryect · 04/28/09, 1:38 AM

Have to tell you I've seriously been thinking about dropping that talent because its getting really hard not to be capped. Pretty sure at the moment its not advantageous to drop it and get hit/expertise cap since it does take a little work to be capped in both (especially without the 10 expertise the talent gives you) but potentially for the next raid instance.

Inaiwae · 04/28/09, 2:30 AM

Primal Precision is very strong talent. You should try setup your gear in such a way that you can make use of it. If you cant, they sure you can drop it, but there are no talents you could take instead of it that would provide similar increase to your damage.

Example of the gearing choices would be replacing [Thrusting Bands] with [Sinner's Bindings].

edit: assuming this talent build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Talleyna · 04/28/09, 3:36 PM

This is something I've been having issues with and upon looking deeper into the whole gear setup I have I realize I'm defficient in quite a lot still wearing 10 man Naxx equipment in some slots and only have Grim Toll and possibly the Valorous Shoulders as the "best in slot" items from Pre Ulduar.

So the question is with the gear on my Armory right now (I'll try to log off in Feral spec for the next few days) is it reasonable to be able to get above the 5k mark? I've come extremely close a few times and this is not including fights like Thaddius or Loatheb with rather large damage boosts or guaranteed crits.

My best dps in a 25 man raid was 4900 even on a single boss, as well I managed to get 4300 on Sapphiron last clear which was honestly a surprise seeing as you have to disengage for a good 10 seconds and that messes with feral rotation.

Basically the question is am I able to get above the 5k mark with the gear I have now by switching a few things around like enchants and gems or is it just up to better gear? I realize I have a lot of progress to do gear wise as I've only raided as Feral since dual spec came in and had a somewhat strange collection of offset gear from healing. Keep in mind I dont have +10 stats or massacre just because they're too damn expensive to use on an item I hope to upgrade shortly.

edits- spelling

m9spd · 04/28/09, 4:08 PM

@Dokidoki I'm currently swimming in hit, sitting at 370, with no hit gems or enchants.

To drop a bit, I tried upgrading [Boots of the Neverending Path] to [Boots of Captain Ellis]. Seemed like a clear upgrade:
-66 Hit
-14 Agi
+28 AP
+43 Crit
+55 Haste

I know this is anecdotal, so please bear with me, but in a few sessions with a training dummy with each pair of boots, i seemed to consistently lose ~125 DPS using [Boots of Captain Ellis], which surprised me. I may be missing something and my proto-testing may simply be invalid (if so, please put this post out of its misery), but I'm wondering if perhaps a high amount of hit:
a) can bring unexpected benefits on its own, or
b) has an interaction with ArPen

I've looked around on EJ and elsewhere but haven't seen anyone proposing such an odd idea.

Hezkezl · 04/29/09, 5:28 AM

Having too much hit being beneficial? Interesting.. the only thing I can think of, that would cause such a thing with your boot changing situation, is that with that much hit rating, you have the combat table all 'screwed up' to give you more crits than it would normally.

But then again, that's a completely uneducated guess from me.