I'd go with the Titanium Earthguard Ring, but either socket it with agility or wait until the shifting opal comes out.
yeah that was my mistake, but im still going to socket it with stamina because agility is evidently diminishing for me already.. like the two ESPECIALLY for not having agility, and having defense
because of the diminishing, ive resocketed all my gems in exchange for shifting shadows, but i also feel that 24 stam > 8 agi(shifting opal). we want AT THE VERY LEAST 45k raid buffed to tank sartharion with 3 drakes. i figure lost agi will come naturally as new content comes out
I noticed Tossk added the [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] to his cat calculator, but not any of the other cards. Anyone know how [Darkmoon Card: Death] stacks up for cat? Supposedly the cd on the proc is 15 seconds.
yeah that was my mistake, but im still going to socket it with stamina because agility is evidently diminishing for me already.. like the two ESPECIALLY for not having agility, and having defense
because of the diminishing, ive resocketed all my gems in exchange for shifting shadows, but i also feel that 24 stam > 8 agi(shifting opal). we want AT THE VERY LEAST 45k raid buffed to tank sartharion with 3 drakes. i figure lost agi will come naturally as new content comes out
It's not Agi alone that is diminishing, but rather Dodge rating is diminishing from all sources; so stacking dodge rating or defense instead of Agi doesn't get us around the diminishing of dodge. See this link for the maths: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/
After a week or two of Naxx, 10mans and tons of dungeons, I'm seeing a disturbing trend for ferals:
Tanking-type itemized drops have the following stats:
Str
Sta
Def - useful, but not all that compared to Agi/Dodge
Dodge
sometimes Hit
Dps-type drops have the following:
Agi
Sta
AP
Crit
So the stats we need the most on dps gear, Str & Hit, is quite often on the tanking-oriented drops.
And the stats we need the most for tanking, Sta & Agi, occur most often on the dps gear.
Only way I can figure to deal with this is to gem and enchant like crazy for Hit on my dps gear, and well, scramble to find some decent Agi/Sta/Dodge stuff for tanking that doesn't have any item budget wasted on Armour (trinkets, rings, necks) or much Defense (everything). I couldn't care less about increasing my threat in Bear right now, but a little Expertise and Hit never hurts. Otoh I'm hurting badly to get to the Hit cap when I occasionally switch to cat for when a second tank isn't needed.
Am I going about this the wrong way? Anyone else feeling a little lost and confused with such huge itemization changes coming for Bear tanks?
After a week or two of Naxx, 10mans and tons of dungeons, I'm seeing a disturbing trend for ferals:
Tanking-type itemized drops have the following stats:
Str
Sta
Def - useful, but not all that compared to Agi/Dodge
Dodge
sometimes Hit
Dps-type drops have the following:
Agi
Sta
AP
Crit
So the stats we need the most on dps gear, Str & Hit, is quite often on the tanking-oriented drops.
And the stats we need the most for tanking, Sta & Agi, occur most often on the dps gear.
Only way I can figure to deal with this is to gem and enchant like crazy for Hit on my dps gear, and well, scramble to find some decent Agi/Sta/Dodge stuff for tanking that doesn't have any item budget wasted on Armour (trinkets, rings, necks) or much Defense (everything). I couldn't care less about increasing my threat in Bear right now, but a little Expertise and Hit never hurts. Otoh I'm hurting badly to get to the Hit cap when I occasionally switch to cat for when a second tank isn't needed.
Am I going about this the wrong way? Anyone else feeling a little lost and confused with such huge itemization changes coming for Bear tanks?
This has been a problem ever since the tanking changes in beta. Leather has one set of stats that aren't optimal, and then the jewelry has a completely different set of stats that aren't optimal. Ghostcrawler has mentioned that this is intentional. Good luck!
So far, I'm having difficulty finding a clear statement about this. Is it because "increases damage done by X for Y seconds" abilities are known to all follow a common mechanic?
Edit: Oh, so if Tiger's Fury is strictly Weapon Damage, does that mean the tooltip is misleading? I.E., it does not increase "damage done" in general, but only weapon-based damage? I guess what I'm trying to understand is whether Rip and Rake are going to benefit also during the 6.0s. (Still getting the hang of tooltip double-speak, haha).
Edit: "weaponDamageEnchants" means gear-based effects which directly increase physical/weapon damage, not literally only enchants that go on a weapon.
Last edited by AudreyChandler : 12/07/08 at 10:28 PM.
I've been reading all of the threads here daily, but I still haven't seen any mention of [Idol of the Wastes]. I know its just a leveling quest reward green, but depending on how the proc rate and buff refresh works, is there any way that this could be a competitive DPS idol? I'm terrible at the actual number crunching end of things, but 61 strength, which should be up nearly all of the time, seems like it could be more useful than 203 damage([Idol of the Ravenous Beast]) on one attack.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the idol isn't modeled at all in Rawr, so perhaps it has just been overlooked as a prospective DPS idol.
After a week or two of Naxx, 10mans and tons of dungeons, I'm seeing a disturbing trend for ferals:
Tanking-type itemized drops have the following stats:
Str
Sta
Def - useful, but not all that compared to Agi/Dodge
Dodge
sometimes Hit
Dps-type drops have the following:
Agi
Sta
AP
Crit
So the stats we need the most on dps gear, Str & Hit, is quite often on the tanking-oriented drops.
And the stats we need the most for tanking, Sta & Agi, occur most often on the dps gear.
Only way I can figure to deal with this is to gem and enchant like crazy for Hit on my dps gear, and well, scramble to find some decent Agi/Sta/Dodge stuff for tanking that doesn't have any item budget wasted on Armour (trinkets, rings, necks) or much Defense (everything). I couldn't care less about increasing my threat in Bear right now, but a little Expertise and Hit never hurts. Otoh I'm hurting badly to get to the Hit cap when I occasionally switch to cat for when a second tank isn't needed.
Am I going about this the wrong way? Anyone else feeling a little lost and confused with such huge itemization changes coming for Bear tanks?
For me I see the Itemization for Tanking Druids usually includes.
Agil
Stam
Expertise
and sometimes Hit
Rogue/cat gear usually has:
Agil
Crit
Armor penetration
Haste
Hit
The only pearls of wisdom I can offer is that for end game tanking your 2 Rings will still probably be [Item not found!] and [Keystone Great-Ring].
Trinket Im pretty sure is gonna be [Defender's Code] , and what ever you feel is you most needed attribute, for Agility its probably gonna be the [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Dont let Armor modifiers fool you, armor is still the best way to gear up your non leather items since its the only way to increase our mitigation, after the next patch the only things that will change is the Blue Armor non leather items will not be as good as say an item with more potential than say 550 armor and a use effect that is worthless [Offering of Sacrifice] , Its just not going to be critical to get Armor items as it is right now since 300 armor equals 1 % physical Damage reduction with full Armor talents in bearform.
Also Expertise is worth 2x as much as hit since it negates Parry and Dodge, while Hits only benefite is that it increases your chance to growl. Thus Expertise is also a Defensive stat while Hit is just helps aggro and make sure your growls land properly.
For me I see the Itemization for Tanking Druids usually includes.
Agil
Stam
Expertise
and sometimes Hit
Rogue/cat gear usually has:
Agil
Crit
Armor penetration
Haste
Hit
The only pearls of wisdom I can offer is that for end game tanking your 2 Rings will still probably be [Item not found!] and [Keystone Great-Ring].
Trinket Im pretty sure is gonna be [Defender's Code] , and what ever you feel is you most needed attribute, for Agility its probably gonna be the [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
I couldnt agree with you more about your choices of ring - The [Keystone Great-Ring] and the [Gatekeeper] will both be great rings even after the upcoming changes. The added armor on these items will not be as amazing as they are currently, however it will still add armor to your final total, and the old ethos of "armor is THE best druid mitigation stat" will not change just because of mechanics changes.
I will also be keeping my Defenders code for the same reason - also the 'on use' is great, and a great situational tool to be used with our other new cooldown abilities.
My second trinket will likely be [Essence of Gossamer] or the already mentioned Darkmoon card.
Regarding Druid leather itemisation, its out there - it just takes a little searching loot tables to find it. for example the following items are all in my "best gear" setup: [Hood of the Exodus] - Better than T7.25 [Footwraps of Vile Deceit] - Shame about haste, but nice stats for tanking. [Thrusting Bands] - Best tanking bracer's
I am still using a lot of generic tanking items such as: [Heritage] and [Signet of the Impregnable Fortress], which are still great for tanking due to high Stamina etc, however i will look to replace the neck with: [Boundless Ambition] when it drops, i'll lose straight dodge rating and Hit but gain Armor, Defence and Expertise, im not at Expertise cap yet so thats great, and as im getting into diminishing returns its nice to grab more flat armor and the "chance to be missed" from defence.
I think its nice to have more gear availiable to us, and the removal of the 100% reliance on armor will make gearing up much easier, but it really does push feral druids even further along the road of grinding PvP for tanking gear as the Deadly belt, bracer and boots are really overpowered (when they are released).
Has anyone done any testing to verify [Plans: Adamantite Weightstone] does in fact no longer work? I have been searching and it sounds like oils no longer work but there are several cases of druids still being able to apply the stones to any of our Northrend staves. I, myself, have it show up on both the weapon and my buff bars but have not done any thorough testing to verify that it IS having an effect.
Has anyone done any testing to verify [Plans: Adamantite Weightstone] does in fact no longer work? I have been searching and it sounds like oils no longer work but there are several cases of druids still being able to apply the stones to any of our Northrend staves. I, myself, have it show up on both the weapon and my buff bars but have not done any thorough testing to verify that it IS having an effect.
I threw out my [Consecrated Sharpening Stone]s from the Scourge invasion because I could not apply them to the first staff I found in Northrend (forget which) - it appears to 'cast' but you get an error at the very end. I forgot to throw out my stack of AW's though... so imagine my surprise to find the weightstones worked on [Stave of Shrouded Mysteries]. I haven't tried them yet on [Staff of Trickery]. Should be able to confirm it is 'working' by checking stat sheet to see if damage and our melee crit increased?
It looks like sharpening stones and mana/wizard oil was properly made to not apply to higher ilvl items but weightstones were forgotten. I'd expect to see this fixed in the first patch that comes along so use up your stores while they're still useful.
I´ve recently stumbled upon a difficult choice when receiving my key for the Malygos encounter. The quest in question (Judgment at the Eye of Eternity - Quest - World of Warcraft) has 2 interesting rewards (Im talking about the ten man version): [Drakescale Collar] and [Pendant of the Dragonsworn]. Taking into account that Im only raiding 10 man and that Im the MT I was wondering if picking up Drakescale Collar would be the right choice for stacking up stamina in certain encounters (even with waste stats it has). The Pendant of the Dragonsworn isn´t a lot better than other specific tanking necks Im able to obtain.
Any thoughts about it would be really appreciated.
So in short get the DPS version, in my opinion you will miss out on a great neck if you take the Warrior/Pally neck. All the above rankings are based on a spreadsheet i made to compare gear prior to wotlk (based on emmerald, but adapted for new agi values etc).
The 'DPS' neck from Malygos is actually not a bad tanking neck, i have socketed mine with AP/Stam and i use it for trash and Naxx 10 man etc as a threat neck. I would take that and socket it with stamina until you get one of the items higher up the list above.
While this does have Agility on it, the lack of Armor, def, dodge, expertise, hit make it very low on what items you should be trying to get for your tanking set, also geming for stam is not the way to go, Agility wil lget you much farther on the lack of avoidance our class has unless you are stacking agility till the 50% DR on dodge kicks in.
This should really only be a last resort item to tank in, since every other Neck you have listed, besides the dps neck, is gonna be better than this to tank in.
Mitigation and avoidance are our weakest areas so thier for they are the places we need to gear for the most. Having large hp and dodge with low armor means that any incoming damage has a higher chance of killing us. Especially on Patchwerk and other heavy hitting boss fights.
In BC I had a great macro for kitty dps that was tied to another macro that auto pops my trinkets. With the xpac out and kitty dps seems so complicated now, I haven't come up with a macro that works yet. Anyone out there have a max dps kitty macro? I'm losing dps looking for buttons to push!
My point was if he is considering using the warrior neck for tanking all of the above would have been better options for him. Obviously anything without armor is not ideal, but if he is thinking of taking the warrior neck then the entire list above will be an upgrade for him. I did rank them in order of preference for him (I didn't post my Bear Mitigation point score tho).
On a side note, did anyone manage to get a rare agi/stam gem on Beta? That one and the rare Str/Hit are not in the game at this time, and i wonder how Blizzard intend to introduce them, or if anyone has any further information.
They are on wowhead, so must have been picked up at some point - its just sad to only see green quality versions of 2 of the best gems for Feral's.
Last edited by Changer_executus : 12/09/08 at 12:51 PM.
Reason: spelling
Has anyone seen a Dev comment, or even the question asked about some of the glaring inconsistencies in tanking itemization as it applies to Feral tanking?
What I'm talking about is:
(1) Head Enchant - sure, lots of stamina is nice, but more Def is meh. As I anticipate wanting to go away from gem/enchants with Stamina around 35k unbuffed (especially as I'm a Leatherworker), I'd also like to see a new +hit enchant or similar.
(2) Best defensive tanking Idol is the TBC badge reward
(3) Similar to the head enchant, shoulders are nowhere near ideal.
(4) Tanking enchant for Weapon - nothing better than Mongoose from TBC?
(5) Lastly, and only slightly related is the dearth of +hit non-armor items compared to the number of classes competing for it. This has always been an issue.
Overall, Feral tanking seems very much a "work in progress" by Blizzard still with regards to making items/enchants/gems truly useable by all tanks and not just "Great or viable for Warrior, Pali, DK but wasted stats for Feral".
I remember this being brought up before, but searching around I don't see anyone posting a definitive answer.
How is the bonus from [Austere Earthsiege Diamond] applied to feral (bear) armor? Additively to the Thick Hide (and upcoming SotF) and then multiplied into the 370% bear form?
I've been searching the forums, and haven't found an answer to this question yet. Has anyone socketed an austere earthsiege diamond yet to see how it works?
On a side note, did anyone manage to get a rare agi/stam gem on Beta? That one and the rare Str/Hit are not in the game at this time, and i wonder how Blizzard intend to introduce them, or if anyone has any further information.
They are on wowhead, so must have been picked up at some point - its just sad to only see green quality versions of 2 of the best gems for Feral's.
There are a lot of gems that drop off the last bosses in heroics, so I'm left thinking that, sadly, we will have to wait for new instances to be put in to get these to drop for JCs. Either that or they will be put on some of the quartermasters, like the frostborn or silver covenant, that we don't have access to yet.
12/05/08, 9:17 PM
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