Feral pre-raid tank gear

Maeltne · 11/18/08, 1:26 PM

So I'm on the verge of 80 and plotted out my planned heroic pre-raid gear, and figured it would be useful to share. General speaking the higher an item appears in the list the better it is.

Weapon
[Enraged Feral Staff] Heroic (UK)

Neck
[Titanium Earthguard Chain] Craft (JC 4x Dragoneye)
[Amulet of Wills] Normal (HoS)

Rings
[Keystone Great-Ring] Heroic (Gundrak)
[Iceforged Battle Ring] Quest (Forging the Keystone)
[Nerubian Shield Ring] Heroic (ANK)
[Band of Torture] Heroic (OC)

Trinkets
[Offering of Sacrifice] Heroic (GD)
[Essence of Gossamer] Heroic (AZN)

Chest
[Crystal-Infused Tunic] Heroic (NX)
[Exotic Leather Tunic] Quest (Junk in My Trunk)

Feet
[Slag Footguards] Heroic (HoL)
[Boots of the Whirling Mist] Heroic (HoS)

Hands
[Handwraps of Preserved History] Quest (A Royal Escort)
[Charged-Bolt Grips] Heroic (HoL)
[Bile-Cured Gloves] Heroic (CoS)

Head
[Mask of the Watcher] Heroic (OC)
[Shroud of Darkness] Heroic (VH)

Legs
[Legguards of Swarming Attacks] Attacks Heroic (ANK)
[Chain Gang Legguards] Heroic (VH)

Shoulders
[Trollwoven Spaulders] (craft)
[Spaulders of the Careless Thief] Heroic (NX)
[Sprinting Shoulderpads] Heroic (ANK)

Waist
[Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt] Heroic (UK)
[Trollwoven Girdle] )craft)
[Treasure Seeker's Belt] ???
[Ley-Whelphide Belt] Heroic (OC)

Wrist
[Bindings of the Tunneler] Heroic (UK)
[Drake-Champion's Bracers] Heroic (OC)

Thromdul · 11/18/08, 2:46 PM

The two leatherworking craftable epics are worth consideration as well.

[Trollwoven Girdle]
[Trollwoven Spaulders]

Spherus · 11/18/08, 3:13 PM

[Keystone Great-Ring] as well from H DK (Prophet Tharon'ja)

kalbear · 11/18/08, 5:27 PM

I did a similar list on my blog. One thing to consider is savage gladiator gear in most of the slots.

If nothing else, the quest reward from CoT:Strat [Handwraps of Preserved History] should be mentioned - it's close to the best hands for a druid in the game right now.

• Falk · 11/18/08, 5:47 PM

How long that will last is anyone's guess. It was reported on beta many many times for being hilariously overbudget.

Tuftears · 11/18/08, 10:29 PM

We do know that armor on necklaces, rings, and trinkets is going to be significantly nerfed (no longer giving the bear multiplier effect) and that armor on weapons will be going away, so you might want to have some replacements ready in these categories, should these turn out to be superior. Agility and stamina will likely be the number one tanking consideration for the weapons.

From Protection Gear Quick Reference I see some interesting pieces.

Necklaces:
[Shadowseeker's Pendant] - 200 - Heroic Ahn'kahet (Jedoga Shadowseeker, 3rd boss)
[Chained Military Gorget] - 200 - Badge Vendor (25 Emblem of Heroism)

Cloak:
[Cloak of Peaceful Resolutions] - 187 - Wyrmrest Accord Reputation (Honored)
[Flowing Cloak of Command] - 187 - Normal Culling of Stratholme (Salramm the Fleshcrafter, 2nd boss)
[Cloak of the Enemy]- 200 - Heroic Nexus (Commander Stoutbeard/Korlug, optional boss)
[Durable Nerubhide Cape] - 200 - Crafted (Leatherworking 440)

Ring:
[Staunch Signet] - 175 - Quest Reward (The Struggle Persists)
[Dragonflight Great-Ring] - 187 - Normal Oculus (Cache of Eregos, ???)
[Titanium Earthguard Ring] - Crafted - (Jewelcrafting 430)
[Keystone Great-Ring] - 200 - Heroic Drak'Tharon Keep (The Prophet Tharon'ja, last boss)
[Signet of the Impregnable Fortress] - 213 - Badge Vendor (25 Emblem of Valor)

Trinkets:
[Valor Medal of the First War] - Badge Vendor (40 Emblem of Heroism)

Idols:
[Idol of Terror] - Outlands heroics badge - remains the only avoidance-oriented idol for bear tanks

Weapons:
[Staff of Trickery] - Cyanigosa in Violet Hold (heroic)
[Stave of Shrouded Mysteries] - Kirin Tor rep (revered)
[Witch Doctor's Wildstaff] - Slad'an, Gundrak (normal)
[Staff of the Sorrowful Chieftain] - Wanted: Ragemane's Flipper (quest reward, Zul'drak)

Deathoak · 11/19/08, 6:14 AM

hi guy´s, whats with the JC Trinket [Figurine - Monarch Crab] with [Delicate Dragon's Eye] or [Solid Dragon's Eye]

many stats and cooldown is just 1min. an option to BoT or [Offering of Sacrifice] (while keeping upcoming AC nerf in mind)?

charriu · 11/19/08, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Deathoak

hi guy´s, whats with die JC Trinket [Figurine - Monarch Crab] with [Delicate Dragon's Eye] or [Solid Dragon's Eye]

many stats and cooldown is just 1min. an option to BoT or [Offering of Sacrifice] (while keeping upcoming AC nerf in mind)?

greeting D´oak

Don't sign your posts.

Rawr rates [Figurine - Monarch Crab] just under [Offering of Sacrifice] and [Defender's Code] for me (depending on gems), and that's before the armor change. So, it's really good, and only gets better compared to the others after the change.

terminalman · 11/19/08, 11:38 AM

I plan on using [Figurine - Monarch Crab] and [Offering of Sacrifice] to start out. I will most likely use [Solid Dragon's Eye] and [Delicate Dragon's Eye] to gem it.

Malazaar · 11/19/08, 11:44 AM

Edit: deleted

Tiffara · 11/19/08, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tuftears

We do know that armor on necklaces, rings, and trinkets is going to be significantly nerfed (no longer giving the bear multiplier effect)

I don't know the current state of this - did you mean to include cloaks as well in the list of slots that will be losing the multiplier? I'm confused by your list of cloaks, one of which has enhanced armor, the others of which don't.

Kadaan · 11/19/08, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by terminalman

I plan on using [Figurine - Monarch Crab] and [Offering of Sacrifice] to start out. I will most likely use [Solid Dragon's Eye] and [Delicate Dragon's Eye] to gem it.

Is there a reason why you're using one of each instead of two of one? The "Unique Equipped: Prismatic Gems (3)" means you're limited to 3 Prismatic Gems, not that the gem itself is Unique Equipped AND limited to 3 Prismatic Gems.

Tuftears · 11/19/08, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Tiffara

I don't know the current state of this - did you mean to include cloaks as well in the list of slots that will be losing the multiplier? I'm confused by your list of cloaks, one of which has enhanced armor, the others of which don't.

Your initial post didn't have any back items in it so I figured I'd just provide the ones I thought feral-useful.

Here's a partial quote, plus a link to the full post.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

ARMOR
We are changing the way bear armor works so that bonus armor on items does not receive the bear armor multiplier. Specifically this means that trinkets, rings, necks and cloaks with bonus armor will not be multiplied by the bear bonus. The normal armor on leather will still be multiplied by this bonus. We are also going to remove bonus armor from Feral staves. You’ll get your bonus armor from the leather you acquire."

Source: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Upcoming Feral changes

Nathariel · 11/19/08, 9:15 PM

Just saw an update to that post.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Feral changes, Part II

This is an update to my previous post on Feral armor changes.

ARMOR
As previously announced, we are changing the way bear armor works so that bonus armor on items does not receive the bear armor multiplier. Specifically this means that weapons, trinkets, rings, necks and cloaks with bonus armor will not be multiplied by the bear bonus. Only cloth and leather will benefit from the Bear and Dire Bear multiplier.

We are compensating Ferals for this armor loss by improving the Survival of the Fittest talent. In addition to its current effects (stats and crit prevention), it will now also increase armor contribution from cloth and leather items by 22/33/66%. That should be very close to your current armor bonus. This makes Survival of the Fittest rather over-budget by talent standards, but we figured it was one talent we can be pretty certain most tank-oriented druids will have (and to be honest nearly all Ferals).

FERAL ATTACK POWER
We are no longer going to have weapons in the game which improve feral attack power. Instead, your attack power will scale based on the dps of the item. Practically speaking this means almost no change for any gear you currently use -- you should not see your dps change. What it does mean is that we can create the occasional dps staff that could be used by druids or hunters (or very undergeared warriors), and that Ferals may occasionaly use two-handed dps maces. We are going to convert all existing Feral staves over to this new system (but again, you should not notice any change to your dps). We are also adjusting the UI so that when druids look at these weapons, you will see what the improvement will be to your damage in forms. This does not mean we are no longer going to create bear and cat weapons, just that those weapons will be slightly less niche than they are now.

These changes will be in place in the next patch. This patch will ship sometime before the 3.1 major content patch featuring the Ulduar raid.

Does anyone know of a comprehensive spreadsheet for druid tanking that is updated with Wrath talents/gear?

Would like to see how things weigh up with these changes but can't really do that using RAWR.

Tuftears · 11/19/08, 10:02 PM

Means that 2-hand maces and staves (if applicable) become feasible for us. Also 1-hand weapons plus offhands if we can find a good offhand.

[Mojo Masked Crusher] - The Prophet Tharonja (heroic Drak'tharon Keep)

For comparison, the [Staff of the Forest Lord] is about equal to a 151.2 dps weapon, assuming they make it a simple conversion.

Also, a missing staff that may be of interest to pre-raid gearing bears:
[Savage Gladiator's Staff] - PVP: 24,000 honor points, 700 arena points, Wintergrasp vendor
(WowHead stats are incorrect, should be: 114 dps, +66 agi, +99 sta, +66 crit, +65 resil, +1602 FAP)

savernon · 11/19/08, 10:52 PM

While it isn't gear, I was wondering. For shoulders, I know that inscriptionists get the shoulder enchants, but could non-scribes still farm up arcane tomes / fel armaments and get the aldor / scryer shoulder enchants? I know its not much, but why not for the nominal effort it takes.

I know that right now it looks like I can, but I just didn't know if I had missed any annoucement that those enchants were going by the wayside like weapon stones.

coldbear · 11/19/08, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Nathariel

Does anyone know of a comprehensive spreadsheet for druid tanking that is updated with Wrath talents/gear?

Would like to see how things weigh up with these changes but can't really do that using RAWR.

I'd love to see that given that I'm RAWR-challenged on an iMac and apparently not smart enough to get it working with the Mono workarounds.

Emmerald is working on updates to his lists (he just finished the stairs to his house), but that might be a while yet.

Nathariel · 11/20/08, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by savernon

While it isn't gear, I was wondering. For shoulders, I know that inscriptionists get the shoulder enchants, but could non-scribes still farm up arcane tomes / fel armaments and get the aldor / scryer shoulder enchants? I know its not much, but why not for the nominal effort it takes.

I know that right now it looks like I can, but I just didn't know if I had missed any annoucement that those enchants were going by the wayside like weapon stones.

The shoulder enchants for everyone not an Inscriber are gained through Sons of Hodir reputation The Sons of Hodir - Faction - World of Warcraft

The Honored enchants are the same level as Aldor/Scryer.

gobbles · 11/20/08, 1:39 AM

Originally Posted by Tuftears

Means that 2-hand maces and staves (if applicable) become feasible for us. Also 1-hand weapons plus offhands if we can find a good offhand.

Here is a list of known weapons in WoTLK sorted for dps

Weapons - Items - World of Warcraft

if we take something like:

[Sinister Revenge] + [Iron-bound Tome]

it would end up being a "weapon" with these stats:

DPS 171.1
AC 200
Agi 36
STM 87
Crit Rating 53
Haste Rating 24
AP 98
Spell power 62

Might not be an ideal weapon stat wise. Though it's not that bad in many respects. What may be more viable is picking up a decent mainhand weapon and some random green with useful stats - eg for a resist fight.

I have a vague memory of some discussions regarding the conversion of weapon damage to feral AP. While Blizzard have yet to do the final figures, does anyone think it is possible to easily compare current feral weapons to other weapons?

It's probably way to early to tell, though it would be fun to see what people think of the possibilities. It will be funny to see a hunter using a staff - which may well happen - and rolling on big two-hand maces will certainly be fun

PS: re the off-hand

Unless i am mistaken, the only off-hand with agility or strength on it is still [Tome of Knowledge] from Live Strat

Deathwing · 11/20/08, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by Nathariel

Just saw an update to that post.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Feral changes, Part II

Does anyone know of a comprehensive spreadsheet for druid tanking that is updated with Wrath talents/gear?

Would like to see how things weigh up with these changes but can't really do that using RAWR.

Those numbers need to improve(the SoTF change) or this is going to be a nerf to druid AC. They go through the numbers on page 3 and 4 on the thread you linked. Naxx 25 geared tank loses ~5k AC.

savernon · 11/20/08, 3:20 AM

Originally Posted by Nathariel

The shoulder enchants for everyone not an Inscriber are gained through Sons of Hodir reputation The Sons of Hodir - Faction - World of Warcraft

The Honored enchants are the same level as Aldor/Scryer.

Man, the upgraded versions barely seem like an upgrade. Thanks for pointing that out though, I must have had a serious brain fart.

Grubsnik · 11/20/08, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Those numbers need to improve(the SoTF change) or this is going to be a nerf to druid AC. They go through the numbers on page 3 and 4 on the thread you linked. Naxx 25 geared tank loses ~5k AC.

That is given the pure numbers provided.
If you use a 400% bear modifier, he loses ~250 armor. Since the goal was never to nerf bear mitigation, but only fix itemization, i expect a "the bear armor mod will be reset to 400%" post at some point.

Another interesting aspect i'm wondering is if cats also get a +66% armor buff from SotF. Would be a nice buff for pvp survival and basic grinding.

I just did some TTL math to assign stat-weights.

Assuming raid buffs and bear talents, we get the following needed for 1% increase in TTL. Armor values are assuming the new SotF, but 370% bear bonus.
22.3 AGI
19.4 Armor on leather armor
151.2 Armor on non-leather armor
Stamina has diminishing returns based on your hp pool, but until you get to 39000 HP, 1 point of stam gives more TTL than 1 Agi.

   Hp    Points for 1% TTL
25000     14.3
30000     17.2
35000     20.0
40000     22.9

As always the math is available in my steadily growing spreadsheet here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...ET8M9KeuCXUMcw

Deliverance · 11/20/08, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Those numbers need to improve(the SoTF change) or this is going to be a nerf to druid AC. They go through the numbers on page 3 and 4 on the thread you linked. Naxx 25 geared tank loses ~5k AC.

To put it slightly in perspective, using the example from the thread linked of a feral druid who has every best armour item up to and including T7 tier, one single change in a loot table (removing Defender's Code from the game and incidentally putting him on an equal footing with a Naxx10 druid) would cost a Naxx 25 geared tank (850-308)*5.17 ~ 2820 armour in the current system - something that probably more than anything else highlights why a change to scaling better off base armour from (iLvl, slot) is preferable to the current situation as a general rule.

I think that the idea of balancing general changes to class mechanics on best-in-slot gear as many people seem to want is deeply problematic from a design perspective because the vast majority of players at any given time do not have "best-in-slot" gear in all slots and neither does their competition, and, looking at it from a "people have different levels of gear and not everybody gets everything they need in a tier of content before moving on" design point of view a 1.66 multiplier looks to be a really good choice based on the currently known pre-raid and entry level raid gear.

That said, I do not know our current strength as tanks in the unreleased T8 content compared to the other tanking classes and thus cannot evaluate how much this will hurt the best geared feral druids by the time T8 becomes available - are they now where they should be or worse off than they should be (in which case this change may be a significant problem and some other buff might be in order to help compensate) or are they better off than they should be (in which case this might be what was needed to bring them more in line with everybody else in terms of performance).

mesullivan · 11/20/08, 1:58 PM

This has been said in the older threads, but the biggest problem I see with druids right now is our lack of ability to scale 2 different avoidance stats, which means that DR whacks us much harder than other tanks. It seems to me without some other way for us to scale mitigation, we will either be overpowered at early raid levels or underpowered at high raid levels. It's going to take a lot more item budget for us to hit 40% or 50% dodge than it will for others to get 40-50% dodge and parry combined. Getting to 30-35% will be ok (maybe even ahead of the game) between talents and our better agi scaling, but we will fall behind as gear improves if we don't have either a big armor advantage or a way to scale another avoidance stat besides dodge%.

Tuftears · 11/20/08, 2:16 PM

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/

Druids look like they have a better diminishing return for dodge, so taking our dodge vs their parry+dodge, we should be able to reach an equal amount of final avoidance.

That's not to say that we're out of the woods there, because itemization does mean that they'll scale a little better, but this is a difference of like 10% inferiority (guessing, items with 3-4 stats vs items with 4-5) versus the apocalyptic 50% deficit you might have been imagining.