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Old 02/28/09, 8:20 AM   #151
Estherion
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Les Sentinelles (EU)
Originally Posted by nightcrowler View Post
10*1.06*1.02*1.10*1.25(*1.1) = 14.8665 (16.35315)
I don't know where these numbers are from, but if you take the BoK in account, wouldn't the new improved word of fortitude (don't know the spell in english :x), which gives +4% stamina, be part of the calculation ? Or maybe it doesn't stack with MotW :/

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Old 02/28/09, 8:40 AM   #152
Ragnorr
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Druid
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
The priest stamina talent works like imp motw, only counts for the person having the talent

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Old 03/02/09, 4:51 AM   #153
Shadowwisp
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Cenarius
So in a brief skim, I couldn't find how the 40% AP -> 36% bonus damage (glyph) change roughly effects Feral dps?

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Old 03/02/09, 5:17 AM   #154
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Shadowwisp View Post
So in a brief skim, I couldn't find how the 40% AP -> 36% bonus damage (glyph) change roughly effects Feral dps?
It's a buff until you reach an AP level that's not obtainable in WoTLK gear. And assuming this game lives that long the numbers can be tweaked again.

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Old 03/02/09, 9:21 AM   #155
Grond
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dalaran
+40%AP = +30% physical around 9k AP.

The 6% from the glyph pushes it up to an insanely high number.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:42 PM   #156
Pzychotix
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
It's a buff until you reach an AP level that's not obtainable in WoTLK gear. And assuming this game lives that long the numbers can be tweaked again.
By the time we do hit that level of gear, the base damage of each ability will also increase, increasing the cutoff point.

In other words: It's a buff no matter what.

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Old 03/02/09, 6:21 PM   #157
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
White:
(54.7+AP/14)*1.36 = 54.7+1.4AP/14
AP = 6892.2
Mangle:
((54.7+AP/14)*2+634)*1.36 = ((54.7+1.4AP/14)*2+634)
AP = 46834.2
Shred:
((54.7+AP/14)2.25+742.5)*1.36 = ((54.7+1.4AP/14)2.25+742.5)
AP = 48472.2
Rake:
(AP/100+190+1161+AP*.18)*1.36 = 1.4AP/100+190+1161+1.4AP*.18
AP = 63994.7
Rip:
(.3AP+3204.3)*1.36 = 1.4*.3AP+3204.3
AP = 96129

Aside from white hits, I'd say "insanely high numbers" is an appropriate description.

It's going to be weird not having the Mangle Glyph, but then, it's going to be nice being able to break 6k on a single target.

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Old 03/03/09, 7:32 AM   #158
loccus
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Warsong
I just notice people always talk about Hit and Expertise, but what about Armor Penetration?
Now that bosses have 13083 armor wouldn't It help melees achieving a better DPS if they Armor Penetration were higher? (maybe considering they are hit/expertise capped)

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Old 03/03/09, 8:10 AM   #159
Coldturkey
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Gorefiend
Originally Posted by loccus View Post
I just notice people always talk about Hit and Expertise, but what about Armor Penetration?
Now that bosses have 13083 armor wouldn't It help melees achieving a better DPS if they Armor Penetration were higher? (maybe considering they are hit/expertise capped)

No because armor pentetration only affects auto swings, mangle, shred, and ferocious bite (if we even use that anymore). 40-50% of our damage will be from bleeds (rake, rip) so it's only common sense that a stat that wouldn't affect half of our damage be not as good as stats that do (ap/crit).

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Old 03/03/09, 4:17 PM   #160
Drashian
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn
My understanding is that Armor Penetration acts on armor independent of sunders and other reductions in 3.1 (that is, it's not devalued by their presence like it is currently). Since ArP has always been a fairly decent stat before sunders (around the same value as crit, I think), that change going live will probably go a long way toward it not being nearly as worthless as it is now. I doubt we'll see anyone gemming for it or anything, but we'll at least not be so displeased when we find it on our stuff.

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Old 03/03/09, 6:16 PM   #161
Allev
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The "common sense" assumption that armor penetration is balanced around players whose damage is 100% mitigated by armor is wrong.

Rogues, DKs, hunters, ret pallies, and enhancement shamen all have components of their damage which isn't affected by armor. The only class with nearly-pure physical DPS from my guild's last WWS parse is our Fury warrior, and he still had plenty of Deep Wounds damage. Other physical-damage classes/specs can range from 20% (warrior) to 60% (DK) non-armor damage. 40%-50% is middle-to-low value on the scale, but it's not terrible.

If you haven't realized it yet, armor penetration isn't our worst stat on Live (see haste and crit) even in non-FB cycles (see Toskk's, Rawr). On live I'm quite happy seeing it on gear, because it's both a good secondary DPS stat and it doesn't have a hard cap on its value like hit/expertise.

Of stats to change, Haste is what gets hurt the most in the conversions: our autoattack damage is by far the lowest of everyone's as a percentage of our damage, since the SR change buffs yellow attacks while nerfing white, and the shred glyph means we get more yellow damage since less energy is needed to keep up Rip.

Overall though, I expect ArPen as a stat for us to stay slightly behind where it goes for all classes: if it's a slight buff on average for every class, it'll be neutral versus live for us; if it stays where it is for everyone on average, it'll be slightly worse.

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Old 03/07/09, 9:08 AM   #162
Taudark
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Will arp be additive? I know that it is if you look at the box in-game, if I have 11% arp from gear I get 61% when Grim's toll procs (49% from Grim's toll)

Will it stack that way with sunder & faerie fire as well?

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Old 03/09/09, 4:56 PM   #163
Dokos
Super bear
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
I'm considering buying a nobles deck while the fair is up. But I would really like to know if I should go with agi or strength.

I understand as of 3.1 agi > str for cat dps. But im concerned about the proc itself. Lets say my trinket procs after I rip or rake. Does the crit gained from the agility buff apply to those 2 bleeds?

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Old 03/09/09, 5:36 PM   #164
Allev
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Armor penetration from gear all comes from the same source.

That's a really good question, Dokos. I would guess that, since the DoT's damage is fixed at cast time, its chance to crit (if not the determination of whether the ticks will crit or not) is set at application time. I'm sure it hasn't been tested, and I doubt it will, because something like that would get averaged out in the long run, for a chance-on-hit proc. It might be relevant for an on-use trinket, though.

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Old 03/09/09, 5:49 PM   #165
ramenchef
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonmaw
Nightcrowler's initial analysis of the current PTR build for feral dps shows armorpen tied with Agility in terms of dps contribution per point. I don't see Blizzard going forward with the changes to armor pen as it stands currently, especially considering it's the only stat that gets better the more you have.

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