Well what kind of dps are you seeing? I expect you should be pretty easily somewhere around 5k dps or at least close to it on a patchwerk 25 type scenario just based on my numbers and how my gear compares to yours. Your gear needs serious fixing though. You're way overgemmed for hit, you have a major ring upgrade (Badge Ring) easily available to you and you can easily upgrade your bracers to the Badge bracers. RAWR has you at just over 3k dps unbuffed on the dummy with just those changes. Don't complain about druid sustained dps if you're not even optimizing what you have.

The reason whhy I'm overgemmer for hit is that I got an upgrade yesterday and didn'r play until then. I will trade them as soon as I log to get as close as possible of the 9% cap.

I'm out of emblems now to get the bracers but I will get them soon. The problem with the ring is that I thought being expertise capped sounded better than more AP. Please correct me if I'm wrong and what should I trade.

Anyway i got a mage in my raid doing 1K more dmg than me. I don't think these changes will fix that

In my guild the only 2 players that beat me on dps fairly often are a Mage and Warrior so that's to be expected that a mage can beat you on dps. You also have to understand that a mage's dps can vary a lot from fight to fight so if you see him beating you by 1k once, that may just be a lucky streak.

For gear you should be using RAWR. I posted a link for you in another thread. It will tell you what gear is best for you, how you should gem, basically everything. Learn it and use it.

Actually, I have already used rawr, but I guess I wasnt using it properly. As I said in the other post I think it es very strange the fact that he "doesnt care" about hit as I do...

But I will take a better look, thx

Cap is 8% nowdays FYI.

No offense, but assuming equal gear: your guild is bad. Feral isn't even the best raid DPS spec amongst its own class.. let alone a diverse raid. Hunters, Shaman, Warriors, and mages have the capability to go at least 500 DPS over ferals theoretical maximum. If you're raiding in a guild where your top DPS is around 4k, well then of course you'll be near the top. But you shouldn't give people advice based on this when most competent guilds will have their highest individual DPS closer to 6k.

Hi, last night we did malygos and naxxramas 10man for achievements. And we used WWS both runs.
But when I look at the WWS Wow Web Stats I find that I miss on 2.8% of my melee hits and a lot of misses on mangle and shred aswell. I am hit capped, so I dont see why this would happen? I saw the first miss which was at patchwerk I pressed "C" to check my gear, but it was as it should be, and I had 267 hit rating. So why am I missing targets when I'm hit capped? Does dodge count as miss on WWS? cause I'm not expertise capped yet.

Heres a link to armory if u wanna check my gear and stats : The World of Warcraft Armory

Ty in advance for any help

Yes, "miss" in WWS counts as "not hit", which includes real misses, dodges and parries.

Druidmanz if you expand your individual attacks on WWS you will find the missies are from dodge or parries.

You require more expertise to eliminate dodge up to a value of 6.5%, to eliminate parries you either need to stack expertise again to overcome the parry cap, somewhere in the region of 10-15%; or try to stay behind the boss and live with the fact that if the boss turns momentarily you will be open to parries.

As far as I know, hit helps you with melee swing. The reason you are missing mangle and shreds is because you need 26 expertise (considering you are attacking from behind) to reach the cap and you only have 20.

Ahh, didn't know you could do that. But I see that there are dodges, parries, and OTHER. Whats the other? is that a pure miss? cause I am hit capped and don't see why I would miss :S and I missed 1.9% on mangle with "Other"

So whats up ? :P

Mounted death knights (forgive me forgot the name) have the ability to cast bone armor. Unless dispelled your hit will be absorbed which fits perfectly in the category posted in the previous post.

Hey I had a question about the usefulness of the 4-piece t7.5 bonus. If you check out my armory you will see that I am sporting the helm/shoulders/legs/chest however I have The Leggings of the Honored sitting in my bank, which I was using before I got the t7.5 helm. In addition, I have the t7.5 hands in the bank.

One option I was considering was keeping my setup as it is until I am able to get the Chestguard of the Recluse, then switch it all out. What do you think?

I've been browsing several threads for this but haven't found a real source:
The basic Feral AP formula that has been around for a while, (DPS-55)*14 doesn't seem to be correct entirely. See [Journey's End] - 2353 FAP, but the 222.9 DPS would amount to only 2350,6=2351 FAP with that formula.
Checked several others and they all were just 2 AP short after rounding. So (DPS-55)*14+2 appeared valid. Until I noticed [Dignified Hammer]/[Levitating Dagger] - 54.9 DPS, and 1 FAP? (There is no melee weapon with exactly 55 DPS, btw)
As long as these two didn't receive an extra 1 FAP, we have to assume we have to subtract not 55, but 54.8 ([The Staff of Twin Worlds] = 0 FAP)
Didn't re-check all weapons (too tired now) but floor((DPS-54.8)*14) would fit for those I did check.
Someone please help me and clarify this, am I just half asleep and seeing things or missing something?

(yes I also checked the ingame display for all mentioned weapons)

Yes, 54.8 is the correct number. I'm pretty sure we have used (54.8 + AP/14) for base damage since hitting 60. Simply multiply that by 2.5 for bear form. I'm not sure where the number was first derived, but I have been using it in my spreadsheet since the very first version. If you found 55 anywhere, it would have only been an estimate.

Ah thanks. Well I guess the 55 quickly got the "common estimate", as it's the only number I've ever seen on these kind of topics.

*edit* Feral attack power@WoWWiki ok, durr, why didn't I find that earlier?

Thanks Abraxxes. I'll add this to the original post once we get closer to patch day. Who knows what they might change in the meantime....

I would imagine that the bonuses would multiply (which appears to be what your figures above include anyway).


Just a few corrections to your figures (pretty sure they are correct).

Strength
Cat - 2.37864 AP (2.616504 AP)
Bear - 2.1624 AP (2.37864 AP)
Bear with PotP - 2.292144 (2.5213584 AP)

Agility
1.18932 AP (Cat Only) (1.308252 AP)
.0129744% crit (.01427184% crit)
.025948% dodge (.0285428% dodge)
2.1624 armor (2.37864 armor)

77.05 agility - 1% crit (70.07)
38.54 agility - 1% dodge (35.03)

Stamina
1 Stamina - 10.812 Health (11.8932 Health)
1 Stamina - 16.218 Health (bear only) (17.8398 Health)

Intellect
1 Intellect - 19.4616 Mana (21.40776 Mana)
1 Intellect - .007785% spell crit (.0085635%)

128.45 Intellect - 1% Spell Crit (116.78)

First let me saythis post is awesome for the numbers. I was reading through and there seems to be some debate on feral hit/expertise cap.

I was hoping someone could take a look at my gear to see if i gemmed it right. Ive tried to follow RAWR as much as possible. I know my spec is not the iseal dps spec. Thats only cause my guild had me tank 25 naxx last night and i didnt get a chance to respec just yet. The problem is seem to running across is the I cant pump out the combo points fast enough to maintain SR and rip up using shred instead of mangle. I always seem to let one fall off. Ive tried follow Rawr with the rotation that it said I should be doing. But thats where the problem comes in at cause it has me doing 2Cp SR with always seems to fall off by the time i get 5 CP to put up rip.

Also another problem I see happening alot is I'll get a 5CP rip up and when I go to refresh it. It tells me a more powerful spell is already active? Whats up with that? Is it a bug or something?

Be careful following RAWR as it has been overvalueing expertise and hit (by a good bit). Toskk and Astrylian recently put their heads together and the new beta Rawr better reflects the value of exp and hit.

The reason you get a "more powerful spell" message is that your last rip was applied with some sort of AP buff active that is no longer active (proc or buff).

First to the poster above, Tigers Fury is something that will help you generate CP a lot (don't know if you have that normally in your spec).

To the rawr - exp/hit thing;
I find that strange to hear. For dps I think it is very important to become hit and expertise capped. Often rawr showed me the non-hit item was better which would leave me non-hit capped. Of course I am mostly comparing high level items with each other. It could be some blue hit item could have too much value compared to an other one.
One correct implementation of rawr is: Once you are hitcapped (from what I can recollect seeing in rawr), hit looses all value. But as long as you are not capped 1 hit is worth as much at nearly capped as it would be when you have 0 hit. Same goes for expertise.

The only times where I can imagine hit and expertise being wrongly valued could when you are not fully capped, or for tanking, where you are most likely not capped. There is currently not much hit on tanking gear, and all though there is much expertise you will most likely not get to the 14/15% parry cap. Valuing a stat vs expertise is a tough one. Expertise gives more threat, but also a damage reduction. Hit also gives more threat. In 3.1 threat may very well become an issue but for most bosses at the moment it is not (Malygos probably being the only exception). So at the moment you don't have to worry about hit/expertise for tanking much. But if you have the opportunity get some items that have it, possibly some high level "rogue" items where haste, crit and agility with the upcoming SD shield will get more value.

So to conclude you say rawr overvalues expertise. I think in 3.1 expertise will gain value because threat will in my view become an issue.

With the new stamina bonus from HotW only being 10%, here are the new stamina numbers for bear form.

Stamina
1 Stamina - 14.8665 (16.35315)

PS: thanks for the corrections Rarebeast, i think i might of had those bear AP numbers you had the first time i went through them >.<

multipliers are multiplicative. soft+impMoW = 1.06*1.02 = +8.12%

base paw damage was already computed base_paw=54.857.

new stam to hp conversion is according to abraxxes: 10*1.06*1.02*1.10*1.25(*1.1) = 14.8665 (16.35315)

As for hit/exp cap look at my post here: Druid Changes Patch 3.1