Feral Druid Numbers (updated for 3.2.2) - Page 6

corveroth · 12/10/08, 11:36 PM

I built this little graph the other day to show how much of a stat you need to get 1% real avoidance after DR, given your dodge chance. I believe it's approximately correct, except that defense should be a bit off since this doesn't factor in the DR on chance to be missed.

RareBeast · 12/11/08, 7:20 PM

Thanks for the graph - very useful indeed. So it looks like for realistic levels of dodge (33-50%) we are looking at ~63-80 Agi per 1% and ~66-84 DodgeRating for 1%avoidance.

Just to clarify, is that 1% avoidance different to a 1% increase in dodge on the character sheet then? It is looking like I may need to add a graph to the OP or something to truly reflect the value of Agi & DodreRating.

corveroth · 12/11/08, 7:23 PM

Well, I labeled the y-axis avoidance instead of dodge because it counts the chance-to-be-missed on the graph for defense. Aside from that, it should match the character sheet (to my knowledge).

[edit]: Typo

Drashian · 12/12/08, 12:23 PM

Revisiting the Hit and Expertise caps, I ran a couple of tests against the heroic target dummy (white attacks only). I wasn't in a group, and had no buffs. I did have Primal Precision.

6.25% expertise: Finally got a dodge after 1300-something swings.
7.5% hit: Missed after 300ish swings.
8% hit: No misses in 1000 swings.

I would have liked to have ran the 8% hit test for longer, but still, the odds of a 1% chance not coming up in 1000 swings can probably be considered statistically negligible. I'm definitely starting to suspect that the 8% physical miss rate other classes are seeing applies to feral druids too. At least in cat form making white attacks vs heroic target dummies.

Pharmacon · 12/12/08, 12:35 PM

Heroic dummies aren't really the concern though. It's boss level mobs that the chance to hit needs to be 9%

[e]: My misunderstanding. I was thinking of a heroic boss level 82.

Drashian · 12/12/08, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Pharmacon

Heroic dummies aren't really the concern though. It's boss level mobs that the chance to hit needs to be 9%

I was under the impression that the Heroic Training Dummy was supposed to be an exact replica of a boss level mob (being classified as such). While it's possible that they have 1% less hit avoidance than a real boss, I haven't seen any definite posts to that effect.

RareBeast · 12/12/08, 9:27 PM

All tests indicate that the dummies have 8% hit needed. So far many WWS reports have agreed this, but we still need more WWS's of kittys with between 8 and 8.99% +hit to confirm this is actually the case now for bosses as well.

I definitely will have to work on getting that graph into the original post somehow. The fact that at higher levels of dodge 45%+ it can take up double the amount of DodgeRating or Agi per 1% dodge than I have posted in the OP is pretty important for people to know I suppose.

Windchilla · 12/13/08, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by RareBeast

All tests indicate that the dummies have 8% hit needed. So far many WWS reports have agreed this, but we still need more WWS's of kittys with between 8 and 8.99% +hit to confirm this is actually the case now for bosses as well.

With 8.54% hit Maly near cap hit. couple of misses on Maly. (note this is without drake damage).

With 9.01% hit Patchwerk cap hit. no misses.

halmmar · 12/13/08, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by Windchilla

With 8.54% hit Maly near cap hit. couple of misses on Maly. (note this is without drake damage).

Actually, you didn't miss. Click the ability and it folds up more detailed stats (your only "misses" were in fact parries and blocks).

EuStormrageFeralDruid · 12/24/08, 2:48 AM

I really like this thread. Because I'm looking further into numbers I was browsing the forums in search of what I needed and uptill now I don't realy have what I wished for but nevertheless this topic gives me insight on some other numbers.

But if anyone could help me with the following then I would appreciate it:

* Formula to calculate my characters armor in the current versions used on the live server @ level 80
* Formula to calculate mitigation from armor used in the current versions on the live server @ level 80

* Formula to calculate my characters armor in the upcomming patch 3.0.8 @ level 80
* Formula to calculate mitigation from armor going to be used in patch 3.0.8 @ level 80

The reason is that I'll like to see it in absolute numbers instead of being satisfied with Ghostcrawlers comment that although armor will be different, the mitigation will stay the same.

I know it's a difficult question, I'm aware of that, but those formula's and calculations have got te be found somewhere? For instance, to keep it simple. How do I calculate my present characters armor. Should I have to multiply armor gained from agi to or is that considered as bonus armor, etc?

Would appreciate the help

Rannasha · 12/24/08, 4:38 AM

Right now, the characters armor is calculated as:
item_contribution + buffs/enchants + 2 * agility

Where item_contribution is:
1.02 * 1.1 * 4.7 * armor_from_items

After the patch, the armor from buffs/enchants and agility remains unchanged. While the armor from items changes to:
1.02 * (bonus_armor + 1.1 * 1.66 * 4.7 * base_armor)

Where base_armor is the armor from the 8 leather slots as well as the base armor from cloaks (compare with an equal level caster or dps cloak to find out the value). Bonus_armor is all the rest.

The formula to calculate mitigation from armor doesn't change. It can easily be found on WoWwiki or Druidwiki.

EuStormrageFeralDruid · 12/24/08, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Rannasha

Where base_armor is the armor from the 8 leather slots as well as the base armor from cloaks (compare with an equal level caster or dps cloak to find out the value). Bonus_armor is all the rest.

I'm pretty sure I've read in the blue PTR post about 3.0.8 that armor from rings, trinkets, neck and cloak won't be multiplied anymore. Although the patch note states only base armor from leather and cloth will be multiplied you still have to exclude cloaks! Basically we won't get any multipliers anymore on weapon / rings / trinkets / neck / cloaks

Thanks for the armor calculation however....know what to do. But I rather find it strange the formula for mitigation stayed the same. This would mean that in patch 3.0.8 we would get less mitigation from our armor since armor probably will be lower in the new patch. I've copied my char to the PTR realm to check the actual values of armor and when I got the time I will most definitly get back to this because at the moment it's all guessing. First things first and thus I am going to try and calculate my armor and hope it matches my ingame result on the liver servers

unitsinc · 12/24/08, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by EuStormrageFeralDruid

I'm pretty sure I've read in the blue PTR post about 3.0.8 that armor from rings, trinkets, neck and cloak won't be multiplied anymore. Although the patch note states only base armor from leather and cloth will be multiplied you still have to exclude cloaks! Basically we won't get any multipliers anymore on weapon / rings / trinkets / neck / cloaks

No, he was correct about cloaks. We get the "base" armor value. To find that, do exactly as he said and find an equivalent ilevel caster or dps cloak and take that armor value and it gets all of our multipliers. Any remaining armor from the value shown and the base is not multiplied.

RareBeast · 12/30/08, 5:59 PM

I have updated the OP to the 8% hit for bosses to reflect the current evidence pointing to this change.

Has anyone seen any information on if there has been any changes to hit% for non-boss mobs? I have left the figures as the previous 5/5.5/6% for level 80/81/82 mobs, but am not sure if they possibly changed when the boss% changed.

Celeras · 12/31/08, 6:52 AM

The things I do for you, EJ~ Confirmation on the hit speculation started on page 4.

263 hit: http://razorbites.com/celeras/263.jpg
262 hit: http://razorbites.com/celeras/262.jpg

Doesn't get much more conclusive then that. Or at least it's not going to from me.