RareBeast

Just a quick status report. I've been on holidays and am catching up at work at the moment. I'll get the original post updated as soon as I can. In the meantime, feel free to post the numbers here. I'll incorporate them into the original post (after checking and reading others feedback of course).

 

ganuard

How do the PVP idols hold up to the PVE idols? The Deadly idol, for example, gives 120ap for 10 seconds on a mangle hit. In my case, since I am the mangle bot, this should be up pretty often considering mangle has to be refreshed every 12 seconds. Since AP affects both Rip and Shred, what do you think?

 

Boevis

[Deadly Gladiator's Idol of Resolve] doesn't close close to [Idol of Worship] or [Idol of the Ravenous Beast]. It averages out at 100ap, even on a fight like Kologarn where you only mangle, it still is going to come out worse than the rip idol.

 

charriu

Except that on Kologarn you can't shred. That doesn't change your analysis, tough.

 

Nathanyel

*edit* Didn't notice you quoted an earlier revision of Boevis' post, sorry.

Anyway, also wanted to emphasize again that Worship is BiS even when you can shred, and quite easy to obtain after 3.1, so getting Ravenous shouldn't even be an option anymore.

 

Murna

Actually a couple of theorycrafters, especially nightcrowler with his FBN addon, think that the shred idol is BiS as soon as you have a certain ArPen Rating (which is something between 200 and 300 if I remember correctly)

 

RareBeast

I have updated the original post to include the changes that came in with 3.1 (as well as the 3.0.8 armor changes).

* Str - multiplied by the 2% Imp.MotW
* Agi - multiplied by the 2% Imp.MotW
* Stam - multiplied by the 2% Imp.MotW, reduced the HotW bear bonus to 10%
* Int - multiplied by the 2% Imp.MotW
* Crit - no change
* Dodge - no change
* Haste - 30% more haste from haste rating
* Hit - no change
* Expertise - 25% more expertise from expertise rating
* Def - No change
* ArPen - 25% more benefit from ArPen rating
* Resil - no change
* Armor - updated for 3.0.8 changes (all multipliers only affecting non-bonus armor on "leather" slots and cloak)


To be done: -
* I may need to expand on the ArPen section as the mechanics seem to be much more complicated than I had thought (or it seems, Bilzzard originally intended).
* I can't see it in the patch notes - did the 25% increased Expertise actually go live? I'll try and check when I get back in-game.
* I want to add a section on the WeaponDPS=>FeralAP conversion
* I want to add a small AP section acknowledging HotW affecting AP & PotP affecting Bear form AP


Any comments/corrections more than welcome.........

 

charriu

No, it didn't.

 

Smartie

Raid buffed I am hitting 56.5% crit, I have heard rumors about there being a cap at 56% is this correct?

If so should I gem str instead of agility to stay below this 56%. The gear I have picked up recently, although good upgrades from my previous gear lacks arm pen, so not sure it's worth gemming as it'll still be a very low vaue? Some of gear is gemmed for it, from when I had more armor pen gear. So in a bit of a mess atm!

I also have the heroic kologram shoulders, but not using them at the moment as I like my 2 t7 set bonus

Naxx fails to drop grim toll for me!

 

Nathanyel

Do you have any source for that, or at least some random forum post stating this?

 

Duilliath

Possibly old Rend and Tear. Bite would cap out on 'Boss Crit' there.

An thenn tehy wuz al ded. Srsly. (Exodus 1)

 

Boevis

Old Rend & Tear, which is to say, not applicable anymore. The first Soft-Cap you encounter is going to be well out of reach at 78% (or whatever 1-Glancing% is now) with the R&T FB Cap at 81%.

There is a point where crit becomes less effective because it won't be increasing your probability of 5cp in 3 abilities as much, this happens around 60% (you'll likely notice both Str and ArP become higher than Agi around this point, no matter how low your ArP was prior)

 

nightcrowler

The crit cap is only for white damage and its:

76% (24% from glancing) if you are hit/exp capped.

or anything between:

61.5%-76% depending on your exp and hit.

Also remember that we have a -4.8% crit suppression on bosses so the effective sheet value is between 66.3% and 80.8%.

 

Miim

Im sorry if I missed the discussion but couldn't find much valid data on the subject of how good 4pt8/8.5 is.
I got my hand on this yesterday. And I had to change Chestguard of the Recluse and Proto-hide Leggings. This means I loose quite a lot of arpen, (about 50ish).
Expertise is also lower than before.

Basically im looking for data/info on how good the 4p is? On paper it seems very good, and should benefit my arpen stacking even more right? Since I get more time to shred and FB.

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

 

Passover

I'm looking to get back into Feral Druiding, which is something i've not done for a while so i have a few questions if its ok, if not please say so :P

Previously i would tend to Stack Str over most anything else as a Kitty - ArP seems to have become a factor now, or a more important one than before at least, so i'll need to balance those i guess but i'm hearing that Agility was changed somehow to improve its value (from Guildy) over or equal to Strength in terms of DPS.
Judging from the numbers in the OP i'm still not seeing how this is the case but i'm being told by a guildy who has stacked AGI / ArP and is seeing better DPS results than thier previous Str based set-up - but they never changed thier Str set-up to incorporate ArP.
However that being said they haven't tried High Str / High ArP set-up to balance the info they have on thier current High AGI / High ArP set-up.

I'm also not sure about priorities anymore as far as Kitty stats go, i was thinking something like Expertise > ArP > AP > Str > Agi.
Any info or advice or even a point in the right direction to previous threads i might have missed that covers this would be apprieciated.

 

Phoa

Prior to patch 3.1 Strength was the stat to stack because of how Savage Roar worked. Since then, with the change to Savage Roar and the addition of Primal gore Agility outweighs strength by a good bit a believe as it increases the crits of rip. Since Savage roar no longer adds 40% attack strength really only provides the initial attack power whereas agility adds crit as well as the attack power. If you look through Nightcrowlers FeralByNight thread it sums up ArP pretty well in addition to prioritizing other stats (Expertise is not weighed very heavily and wouldn't be at the front of the list)

 

Boevis

@Miim: 4t8 is better than 2t7/2t8 depending on which pieces you are using. The general consensus is that Chest is the best non-set slot. There's quite a bit of discussion about it in the Feral by Night thread, but you'd have to dig for it. Best answer: Use Rawr to tell you.

 

RareBeast

Updated for 3.2


* Increased the amount of Agi & DodgeRating per %dodge by 15%
* Increased the amount of Resilience needed per %crit reduction etc. by 15%
* Changed Resilience from reducing DoT damage to reducing all damage
* Fixed a change I made to Expertise from last patch that did not go live (sorry for my slackness here)


Please let me know if there are any changes I missed.

 

Mijae

What are these numbers based on? Many of the ratings do not match the updates made to Combat Ratings at level 80. The agi/1%dodge has not been updated, but the patch notes indicate a 15% increase. This would be around 47.91666667 base.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

Farahota

Your armpen numbers could use an update.
15.19 / 1% armpen
1 armpen / .065%

let me know if my numbers are wrong please, this will be my 1st time posting number.

 

RareBeast

Fixed the ArPen figures. According to the combat ratings thread it is 15.395/1%.


Mijae,
The reason for this is that 1 Agi on your gear is not = to 1 Agi. It is multiplied by SotF & Imp.MotW.

1 Agi * 1.06(SotF) * 1.02(impMotW) = 1.0812 Agi

From the combat ratings thread 41.66666667 Agi = 1% dodge and therefore 1 Agi = 0.024% dodge <===Still old values

3.2 figures :- 47.91666666 Agi = 1% dodge and therefore 1 Agi = 0.02086957% dodge

So 1 Agi on our gear = 1.0812 * 0.02086957 = 0.02256417% dodge

and it would require 44.318 Agi on your gear to give you 1% dodge

 

Farahota

15.39, was my original number but i re-did the math and it came to 15.19 so i guess i messed up some where. thank you for the update.

 

◊ Talanik

With MMO-Champion listing the full item list for all versions of ToC, will this be updated with a new BiS list sometime soon?

Glancing at it, it seems there are only two distinct sets of items, one in 10 man and one in 25 man. The heroic modes are the exact same items only with upgraded stats, much like T7 to 7.5 and 8 to 8.5. This does cut down on itemization, but also makes things a bit simpler. We won't have to balance items from 10 man, 10 man hard modes, 25 man, and 25 man hard modes any longer, as the best will only be from the heroic versions.

 

Sadirin

I am very sorry, but can someone point me to the correct threat values for mangle, lacerate, maul, where i can see bonusthreat and threat multiplier (like maul threat = 2,07 x (dmg+424) )? I had a link to it somewhere here in the feral discussions but my bookmarks has crashed and my search-fu seems to be very weak.

 

Murna

Threat - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Bear Form, as well as the tankforms of warriors, paladins and Death Knights, gives you a passive 29/14 multiplier bonus to threat (2.0735). You can see this on the left side of the table, under the headline "Threat Auras"