Post deleted due to errors. Hard mode or it don't count!

Am I to understand that the way druids heal heroic hard modes is to cast plenty of nourishes on targets without hots? Since you know, that was the entirety of my post which you're apparently posting contrary to. I don't understand how you figure such a large portion of druid nourish casts will land on un-hotted targets.

For the record, we focus on 10 man hard modes since we don't have 25 raiders in our guild and have to pug players for heroic uld. It is nice to see that you don't approve of smaller guilds. (though I have since stopped raiding with them).

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. You'd be surprised how important glyphing can be in so-called "lower-end content."

For instance, my guild was doing 10-man Ulduar last night with Hodir, normal mode. We brought 3 healers. As druids are best designed for raid healing, I assigned first the shaman, then the priest, to heal the MT, both of which failed miserably. Not the first time it's happened.

So, I keep my Glyph of Nourish knowing full well that I might be stuck MT healing at any time, and if so, the value of that glyph changes significantly.

The point being, even at lower-end content, making correct glyphing, gearing, and talent choices can matter quite a bit, especially if you're making up for people with less knowledge and skill.

In my case, if you're going to be doing more MT healing, then I'd say Nourish is the way to go for semi-obvious reasons. If you're only doing 25-mans with reliable Disc Priests and Holy Pallies to heal up those tanks, GoNourish is going to be significantly less powerful and you'd be better of with Rejuvenation.

However, I politely disagree that it doesn't matter what lower-end raiders use. It always matters.

I both agree and disagree. In one sense it does matter as any conscientious raider is going to want to be tuned to their situation. At the same time, however, there's a clear difference between choosing glyphs for normal mode encounters when compared to hard mode.

Basically, optimization in both contexts means entirely different things. Consider your own argument: Because you may need to MT heal sometimes you have glyphed Nourish. Even when you aren't MT healing, you still have Nourish glyphed. By definition you're optimized to be able to switch between roles over the course of a run.

Ezarg's optimization is completely different. The context from which he is speaking requires that players optimize fully for one role, and nothing else. Glyphing Nourish while fulfilling a raid healing role is simply not an option.

So when Ezarg says "it doesn't matter", I don't believe he's implying that one could and should go completely glyphless, but that you can easily make an argument for any of the available glyphs and not be wrong by the simple virtue of the nature of the normal mode encounters.

I'm actually rather surprised there is even debate on which glyphs to choose, given our current choices.

As it stands now it's fairly obvious that Wild Growth and Swiftmend are no brainers, assuming your primary focus is 25man raiding content. Our third choice as stated previously in this thread boils down to Rejuv, Nourish, or Regrowth. For the most part, Regrowth can be tossed out of the equation without much of a second thought just due to our current style of play, and the amount that we actually even use regrowth, let alone use it again once it's already applied.

Thus we're left with Rejuv or Nourish. And at this stage of the game, the only time that we're pretty much forced to use nourish as nothing can come close to doing the job better is Mimiron napalm, or the rare instance where we have to back off raid healing and heal a tank moreso then a swiftmend. Rejuv glyph comes in handy for a plethora of easymode and hardmode encounters alike, Mimiron, General, and Freya most noticably with Thorim/Hodir/etc getting some benefit as well.

This comes from my PoV (hardmodes, raid healer), and again as stated previously this is going to be what most top-end druids/guilds strive for. Even if you're not currently pursuing hardmodes, the simple fact that nourish is so low on the healing totem poll and rejuv is on the very top. It's no contest to buff Rejuv where possible.

Ok, you think Swiftmend is obvious. Can you explain it to me? With numbers if possible. Everyone says Swiftmend is obvious, but nobody explains. I tried to quantify how much Swiftmend actually returns and got abysmally low numbers. Since so many people seem to like this glyph, I can only assume I am missing something.

Well, how much are you clipping off of the Rejuvenation on the target if you are consuming the HoT? Each tick that you clip is ~2500 lost healing. If you are casting ~8-10 swiftmends per fight, in the absolute best case you are clipping 20000-25000 healing. Of course, if you swiftmend before the last 3 seconds in the rejuv you'll potentially clip a lot more.

Now, you could argue that your swiftmend is going to make the rest of the HoT pure overhealing, but then I'd wonder if you're using swiftmend wisely if you're often targeting people with HoTs active and <9k deficit.

In any case, let's see how much you need to cast nourish in order to get the same mileage out. If Nourish averages let's say 4500, a 6% bonus is 270 hp. So in order to make up the "best case" of 20000hp in Nourishes, you need to cast enough nourishes to hit 75 HoTs. That's quite a few nourishes, even hitting 4 HoTs with every one.

I'd say even with the fudgy math, the advantage of Glyphed Swiftmend over Nourish is quite clear.

doublepost

My guildmate tree and I tested the Rejuv Glyph last night on Thorim hardmode. The theoretical numbers as stated before looked amazing.
Unfortunately I got at best 8 procs per fight out of the glyph which equals about 0.3% of my total healing although I use Rejuvination a lot.

I did 90% raid healing and 10% OT healing in phase 1 and switched to 100% Raidhealing in phase 2.
We run two restro druids on 25mans.
I got the impression that nourish glyph would be a better "lifesaver" as there were always plenty of my hots on the raid. Even though I don't use nourish very often it's a good spell to shoot up people who failed on movement as we are learning the encounter.
I'm aware that once you start nourishing people to save them from death, you'll automaticaly gimp your overall HPS. But if people are not getting topped of quick enough and swiftmend is on cooldown it's my only option. In my Oppinion we should't stare on the numbers in some sort of tunnel vision, but evaluate what saves raidmembers from dying.
Maybe on even harder fights like mimiron (hard) Rejuv Glyph could shine a little more, but I don't see much potential for thorim and hodir.

I typically glyph for Wild Growth, Swiftmend, and Rejuvenation. I've found that those are fairly practical in most encounters due to my raid healing assignment but will glyph RJ --> Nourish for General Vezax. While the RJ glyph doesn't really do much in encounters where players don't dip under 50%, my Nourish usage is generally minimal as well as situational and my target is not always guaranteed to have a hot on them. A good example would be countering Napalm Shell on Mimiron. If I'm lucky, my RJ spam has hit them but a raw Nourish spam is more than enough HPS.

For some hard modes, my best attempts on IC.25 Hard have used 4 healers with myself as the only Resto Druid. Our Ret Pally accounts for around 10,000 effective HPS which compliments my RJ/WG blanketing. For XT-002 Hard, the RJ Glyph is simply phenomenal because of the number of people who dip under 50%. I also like having the RJ glyph for Mimiron P2.

I think you will see an improvement in the RJ glyph if you run Hodir (and other aoe heavy fights) with fewer healers. I've been attempting the fight with a H.Pally, H.Priest, and 2xR.Druid setup and there are several occasions where people don't pay attention to their Biting Cold stacks or eat an Icicle and dip under 50% very quickly. The goal, of course, is to take as little Biting Cold damage as possible as well as avoid every Icicle, thereby reducing the raid healing to mainly Frozen Blows (which our Paladins absorb a good chunk of) and thereby nullifying the RJ glyph.

Because the Swiftmend glyph saves you from casting another Rejuvenation on the target I view the glyph, at best, providing me with the savings of an additional RJ. If I’m casting every GCD, a non-glyphed Swiftmend keeps me from having Rejuvenation on one additional target, or about 550 HPS. In cases where I’m not casting every GCD, I save the mana I would have needed to use to re-apply RJ. In my case, this is at best about 120 mp5 for the duration of Rejuvenation.

Of course, whether or not Swiftmend is worth a Major glyph slot is also highly dependent on how often you actually use it. However, even if I was using it constantly I can’t say this savings is enough to make the Swiftmend glyph a must-have; nonetheless it is still a strong glyph.