They can't both be up at the same time. You won't proc lunar eclipse during solar buff, or vice versa.

Eclipse: The Starfire and Wrath buffs from this talent are now on separate 30 second. cooldowns. In addition, it is not possible to have both buffs active simultaneously.

So:

W W W ... (lunar proc) SF SF SF ... (solar proc) W W W ... ... refreshing DoTs at the optimal times.

I think this sounds correct, I don't play a boomkin, but in my mind this rotation seems to be the way to go. The question is, if one has the SF and Wrath idols, is it worth it to use a GCD to swap them? The loss of a GCD for the trade off of more damage seems interesting.

I personally am not a fan of constantly swapping items and wasting GCD's. I doubt Blizzard intends for Moonkins to have to do this to deliver solid damage output, and if it came down to the point where we were doing it, they would *fix* it again.

Considering the changes to the Wrath and SF rotations in 3.2, and depending on how the numbers work out for Moonfire and Insect Swarm uptime, there are these Idols to also consider.

[Idol of the Crying Wind]
[Furious Gladiator's Idol of Steadfastness]

1 GCD is moreless half of your SF cast. You are sacrificing several thousand of damage and gain some minor bonus for 10-20 casts. Definitely not worth it.

It's actually an interesting idea. Hoping to get updates into WC format over the weekend, and should be easy to evaluate then.

Running into a conceptual issue: how to correctly model DPS during the Eclipse proc phases? For example, in the pre-Solar phase of the new 3.2 cycle, you're chaincasting Starfires, but the phase ends as soon as one crits. The mean number of casts before this occurs is 1/(crit chance). But is it correct to model the DPS of that portion of the phase as being equivalent to chain non-crit Starfires (which is very low)? Or is that bad statistics--assuming the non-crit nature in advance? I've somehow worked myself into confusion over this.

I've just been thinking about the implications of pushback on the higher Wrath usage. I think the Glyph of Wrath and Natures Focus need evaluating.

Napkinmath:

Using scenarios of 40%, 50% and 60% casting time spent on wrath (i.e. 24, 30 and 36 seconds per minute), with 0 pushback resistance and 50% pushback resistance (imp conc aura, or the glyph, or 2/3 natures focus):

• If you are interrupted once per wrath cast (think Mimiron P2, a really nasty situation), and a wrath cast is 1.2 seconds base (assuming 1 second + latency), it costs you:
  • 24 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 10 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 5 seconds
  • 30 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 12.5 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 6.25 seconds
  • 36 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 15 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 7.5 seconds
  
  Just thinking about the estimate of time lost total per minute with 50% pushback resistance, there's a huge amount of value in using the wrath glyph (or having 2/3 natures focus) to get 100% pushback resistance in this situation, even with the lower estimate of 40% cast time spent on Wrath.
  
  
  
• If you are interrupted once per every third wrath cast (more realistic situation in most fights with some AoE damage), and a wrath cast is 1.2 seconds base (assuming 1 second + latency), it costs you:
  • 24 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 3.33 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 1.66 seconds
  • 30 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 4.16 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 2.08 seconds
  • 36 seconds:
    • 0 pushback resistance: 5 seconds
    • 50% pushback resistance: 2.5 seconds

Even in a situation where you only cast wrath 40% of the time and have 50% initial pushback resistance (imp conc aura), you still lose out on effectively ~1.5 seconds, with this low estimate of only 1 pushback happening every 3.6 seconds. If you estimate it at 1/36th of the time, it's around 180 dps from doing 6k dps.

It might be the case that for pure min-maxing, keeping a stack of wrath glyphs to swap in for something else is the best solution in fights with high AoE damage. Before I start thinking that I should use the wrath glyph as one of my standard glyphs it would be nice if someone could check through sims/etc though, if it's possible to model this simply. I'm also assuming that for the purposes of this, switching talents in to nature's focus probably isn't worth it compared to switching a glyph, where glyphs are worth around 75-100 dps each, while 2 talent points would be worth more than that.


For those looking at the values of haste/crit and their worth now, think about how Bloodlust, Aura of Celerity, Starlight and Shadow Crash affect these two functions. It's pretty much always been the case that 'burn' phases are done under Bloodlust because of the DPS required, so haste instantly loses a large proportion of it's value now that Wrath is a larger proportion of total damage done, even when under 400 haste. On other fights (hodir, vezax and thorim) haste also loses out in favour of crit virtually the whole time because of fight specific buffs. The changes in stat values from Starfoxes sim runs make a lot of sense.

If you are getting hit 1 per 3.6s or even more, then you should have OF in your template, you'd end up with ~50% uptime. Probably much better than getting an anti-pushback glyph.
That being said, outside of hardmodes which i haven't tackled yet, i don't see that as a realistic damage income. 1 per 10s is already high as far as normal modes go.

There's an interesting Sigil-twisting macro on the DK forums, which works pretty well for my DK, that might be of use for idol swapping depending on what the rotation ends up looking like. Attaching the Wrath idol to IS and the Starfire idol to MF could be exceptionally efficient. There might be an issue with DoT uptime in regards to having to alternate your DoT order before every Eclipse, but if your DoTs tend to run out in the second half of your Eclipses it might not be a problem at all.

If you elect to use it, the Starfire glyph will likely increase the complexity a bit.

That's what I was imagining--a fixed DoT referesh sequence tied to the Idols. I'm actually kind of sick of modeling continuous DoT refreshing anyway . . .

Note that you don't exactly want it bound to all your IS's and MF's, since an Idol swap incurs an unhasted GCD. So you will need two extra buttons or a clever macro scheme.

I wonder if there's a clever way to work in the IS Idol.

e: the macros in the DK thread seem to indicate that item swapping is unprotected. So we can pretty much do whatever we want with macros.

If you refresh Moonfire before IS, could you theoretically swap to your IS idol on your MF GCD, and then on your IS GCD swap to whatever idol you'll need for the next rotation?

Seems like we'll have a lot of idol swapping macros =)

You mean besides the 1% to all stats that it gives you?