The original 4T9 (5% crit to Starfire) was assumed to be a placeholder. In the latest round of updates on MMOC, it was changed to 3% crit on Starfire/Wrath, which is basically just as weak.

I don't anyone's expecting 4T9, whatever it winds up being, to be an upgrade. We're saying the opposite--nothing they put there is going to outdo 2T8 anyway.

As it stands right now it's looking like 2t8 2t9 is about 4% better than 4t9, and with the meager differences in stats between the other two pieces of t8 for t9 ("About 78 SP and 31 hit for 73 crit." replacing t8 pants/shoulders with t9) it isn't being made up. Also it has to be more than comparable to make it worth upgrading. If it isn't a real upgrade, it's simply not worth the effort.

bah, completely missed they changed it already. Lets hope something changes. Would suck to be stuck in ilvl 226 gear. Rather take a nerf to 2p T8 then, like some are already saying.

My only real concern is the haste vs crit weights that you guys are grinding down as we speak. I can't shake the feeling that I'll be constantly wincing from gearing into either less Lunar dps or more Solar gcd clipping. Since rotation seems to be loosing its importance, just go on and cue the crazy old theorycrafter appearing with the magic plot of optimal crit/haste for SP stuck to his beard and I can just set my teeth and go with it.

It seems that Blizzard doesn't like haste for druids, or at least overly hasted. Thus it looks, and i think it's been stated, that around 400 haste will be optimal in a 2t8/2t9 geared setup. I know for t7 content, I went over 600, now Ive dropped to just below 500 for t8.

But regardless of whether or not they change the bonus to 4t9, I like the change to balance for 3.2.

Always wondered - How do you select your [reaction time] when you're most likely spam clicking (or as some, using key repeat helpers)? Do you use it for every cast or just eclipse switching/4p T8 proc usage? Also, back in TBC it was argued (in discussions about haste and lifebloom stacking) that the magnitude of ones latency wasn't as big of a problem as a highly fluctuating latency, so that with a somewhat constant latency coupled with the (then) new pre-casting you wouldn't really be affected even with a fairly high latency - did that argument stand the tests of time, and and if so, does it apply at all for these haste/crit calculations above and below gcd? Maybe that's all covered since way back and I just missed it, but would like to know the current state of things.

Resposting a comment I made on a blog about 4T9. I see a lot of people making a huge fuss about it on the official forums and other places. I don't think there's any point to this.

1) The fact that it's weaker than the 4T7 isn't significant. Set bonuses aren't stats; they don't have to scale coherently from tier to tier. The only real issue is that the upgrade paths work (i.e. why they buffed 2T8 on the 3.1 PTR to be stronger than 4T7). Which brings us to:

2) Being weaker than 2T8. But here's the thing. 2T8 was a nice strong set bonus before the 3.2 Eclipse change. Now it's an extremely strong set bonus (~350 DPS typically). Nothing they intentionally design into the 4T9 slot is going to outpace that anyway, so 4T9 is irrelevant. The only way to make 4T9 beat 2T8+2T9 is to nerf 2T8. Which brings us to:

3) The DPS bump we're all looking forward to in 3.2 relies heavily on 2T8. The 6-8% we've all been estimating will take a huge cut (more than half) if 2T8 isn't around. A 4T9 buff and corresponding 2T8 nerf in order to make 4T9 wearable will result in a worse DPS position for us during the 3.2 cycle.

Now, I'm generally in favor of clean design, and it seems the correct approach here would be to:
--Give us a nicely balanced 4T9 bonus.
--Nerf 2T8 to compensate for the much higher Eclipse uptime in 3.2.
--Give Moonkin some other DPS buff to compensate for the fact that the Eclipse buff is no longer backed up by 2T8, making it comparatively minor.

But the third is highly unlikely to occur this patch. So it seems the easiest path forward is to happily use 2T8/2T9 for now, rather than constantly petitioning Blizz for what's going to be a net DPS loss.

I'm wondering if anyone has put any thought into trinkets like Embrace of the Spider and Elemental Focus Stone which with their haste procs in 3.2. Right now with a lunar rotation they work well since the only clipping they cause is in the pre-eclipse phase. Once we start alternating back and forth between lunar and solar, I'm wondering if the dps loss to clipping during a solar eclipse will outweigh any dps gains during a lunar eclipse.

Obviously there are better trinkets out there that don't include a haste proc, but I'm trying to figure out how fit trinkets into my DKP spending plans pre 3.2. Currently I have a lot of other gear that needs upgrading and trinkets were pretty much at the bottom of my list of priorities. Does that change with with the changes to eclipse?

After 3.2, I'd rather have a /use than a proc on a haste trinket. That way I can macro it with my Starfire and make sure it gets synced to the correct part of my Eclipse rotation. Even if it means slightly less uptime, it seems like control will become more important. You'd need 2x the uptime from a proc trinket in order to get the same benefit from the RNG.

Unfortunately unless 3.2 introduces more trinkets of this type, [Scale of Fates] is the only recent trinket that fits that profile.


EDIT: Nevermind, simulation does not bear this out.

Using napkin math with an assumption of 5 sec between Eclipse procs, it fit quite neatly with the 2 min cooldown of the trinket. But once the RNG is properly considered it falls apart. If Lunar Eclipse procs but the trinket still has 15 sec on CD, you lose significant uptime as you wait for the Lunar part of your cycle to come around again.

Rather than 5 procs in 10 min, I'm seeing more like 3-4.

This makes me agree with Poromu... haste trinkets just aren't a good investment anymore.

According to Arawethion's 3.2 wrath calcs spreadsheet's weightscale, for my druid, Eye of the broodmother is the 2nd best trinket after Flare of the heavens (excluding any Coliseum trinkets we don't know about yet). Here's my full trinket list if anyone's interested:

Flare of the Heavens...........363.1
Eye of the Broodmother.......295.22
IDS...................................290
Dying Curse.......................267.25
Scale of Fates....................264.05
Sundial of the Exiled...........252.14
Living Flame......................242.55
Embrace of the Spider.........238.7

Note: Scale of Fates is probably worth a little more because you can choose to use it during lunar eclipses, so you could probably add an arbitrary 15 points or so. This makes is better than dying curse, but still short of illustration.

You should always take these in context of the fight. IDS is always going to be worse in a burn fight (see xt if you're having trouble killing the heart, or similar fights where you want to line things up with bloodlust or other burn parts which require burst damage) because it's a flat benefit instead of activatable burst. Scale of the Fates is awesome if you're looking for a trinket that will let you line up procs with specific portions of the fight which require burst. IDS and Broodmother also have the issue of dropping off on any fight which you may end up not attacking for long enough for stacks to drop (something like Vezax is a good example depending on what tactic you use and how lucky you are with shadow crashes). You should never take results like this as a definitive list of what is the best, take it in context of what you are doing and what you need.

Assuming you're going to be running 2t8 and 3t9 (the 245 ilevel), which t8 pieces would be the best to hold onto?

Shoulders seems like a shoe in, but the lower stat budget gloves turns a blue slot to a red one, and the pants gains spirit which would leans me to t8= shoulder/legs, t9=hat/bp/gloves

I don't think I'd give up the t9 bp/hat though. thoughts? math?