E&M to 6%
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Why are balance druids being ignored?

First session of test on dummy with Nibelung (had to stop because of maintenance, more datas to come)

I unequiped anything that can proc to assure best conditions (rep ring, cloak, Reign, 2p T10). I also didn't take OoC. I had the MF glyph but since I didn't use MF it should not be of relevance.
I used an unoccupied lvl 80 dummy in Darnassus and spammed SF while joining the floodfest on the /2.

Test 1 (in caster form) :

• Nature's grace = NO
• Moonkin form = NO
• E&M = NO
• OoC = NO

SF : 1000 casts / 32.2% crit / 5 321 326 dmg done
Valkyr : 14 procs / 17.0 casts average / 0% crit / 401 783 dmg done

Test 2 (in Moonkin form) :

• Nature's grace = NO
• Moonkin form = YES
• E&M = NO
• OoC = NO

SF : 1000 casts / 36.8% crit / 7 188 788 dmg done
Valkyr : 12 procs / 17.0 casts average / 0% crit / 344 242 dmg done

Test 3 (in Moonkin form):

• Nature's grace = YES
• Moonkin form = YES
• E&M = NO
• OoC = NO

SF : 1000 casts / 36.5% crit / 7 154 086 dmg done
Valkyr : 19 procs / 17.0 casts average / 0% crit / 545 462 dmg done

I don't want to jump to conclusions considering it's only 1k casts samples but NG may have an impact on the proc. I will probably double check with another 1k casts in the same conditions as Test 3 tomorrow.

I will also try to get a friendly DK to put Ebon Plague for a testing after my NG+Moonkin form+E&M session. Stay tuned.


Edit : After rereading the results I do wonder why I would only gain 4.5%~ crit when casting in Moonkin form, since I should get a raw +5% and a bit more due to the +10% Int (Furor).

Ugh, it's hard to pick out something this fine at such a low proc rate. That suggests it's Nature's Grace, but then my test above in my Resto spec (which had NG) is anomalous. But it's all within error bars still, just need to heap on more data.

Were you shooting at a level 80 dummy? 1688 average Smite is exactly what I expect to see without E&M, but without level-based partial resists.

Yup, lvl 80 dummy with no E&M.. I could swear I saw some Smite crit when running heroic instances but the crit chance seems to be really low on lvl 80 targets (I don't think I saw any crit on bosses).
I am positive it was able to crit prior to the last patch, almost positive it still can.. Just very low crit rate.

With any chance I will have similar results when doing another 1000 casts in Test 3 conditions. I think we can use Test 1 and 2 as a 2000 casts with similar conditions.

Not to distract from the current discussion of Nibelung, I'm interested to know the outcome.

BUT, I'd like to know why the "cookie cutter" spec has 5/5 Furor over 3/3 NF + 2/5 Furor. I've always specced for the latter, it might be a tie over from single spec days (PvE and PvP) but I've always maintained that it's superior to the former.

It seems a bit erroneous to being spending 3 talent points for what roughly equates to (say 1600 int buffed without Furor), ~100 int (moot), ~12 +spell and ~0.8% crit. Am I missing something? It seems to be the "Spirit tap" for Balance.

Well I guess it's because you can mesure the dps gain given by Furor (because as you said it gives some spell power and crit, along with mana regen - which is almost irrelevant but still), when you can't really mesure the dps given by a talent that reduce pushback.

There are very few fights when you will be consistantly interrupted while casting, and since NF only affect Wrath (for us), that's not a huge issue considering that most of us are gcd-capped on it, so a small delay usually won't be of any relevance.
However, if we do have major pushback issues in some fights in the future it may be the way to go.

Any idea how much of a DPS buff this is? From what I've noticed from ICC parses, moonkins tend to be very very low compared to other proper dps classes.

It will be exactly a 3/103 = 2.91% DPS buff.

Second session of test on dummy with Nibelung (still more to come).

Exact same conditions as before.

Test 4 (in Moonkin form) :

• Nature's grace = YES
• Moonkin form = YES
• E&M = NO
• OoC = YES

SF : 1000 casts / 39.0% crit / 7 309 014 dmg done
Valkyr : 19 procs / 17.105 casts average (+2) / 0% crit / 548 420 dmg done

Test 4b (in Moonkin form) :

• Nature's grace = YES
• Moonkin form = YES
• E&M = NO
• OoC = YES

Wrath : 1000 casts / 36.8% crit / 3 961 161 dmg done
Valkyr : 11 procs / 17.455 casts average (+5) = / 0% crit / 323 523 dmg done

Not sure why Wraths get less procs.. Since I got OoC and it didn't seem to have any effect on SF, I would guess that OoC may have a negative effect on procs (maybe not counting spells casted with OoC?), since Wrath have more chances to proc OoC (OoC procs normalized on 1sec hits). Anyway it's quite a moot point since we cannot spec out of OoC as soon as we have 2pT10.
And it's quite a hazardous guess here anyway.

One interesting event : proced 2 Valkyrs with one SF crit (which would seems to further validate the theory about NG procing the valkyr)

We're running into a problem whereby it's hard to resolve out a difference of ~0.3% proc rate even with a few thousand casts. No Glyph of Starfire for these tests, right? It's hard to think of any reason that Starfire and Wrath would be different. The main difference between your tests and mine seems to be Earth and Moon, I think we can at least get more confident about that.

Trinket time. Only bothering with the 4 good ones. Take my current gear in WC, drop IDS, add in each trinket and check DPS.

Reign proc: just clicking on the Reign proc in the sheet. There's the issue where we're unsure about consecutive Reign procs at various levels of haste and latency. I'll check both ways.

Muradin's: constant spellpower.

DFO: 5.5 stacks mean during the uptime. Uptime is 20/55 (45s ICD, 10% proc rate).

Phylactery: Uptime is 20/94 (90s ICD, 30% proc rate from DoT ticks).

DPS after removing IDS: 8300
RotD: 8827
RotDH: 8891
RotD*: 8754
RotDH*: 8810
MS: 8745
MSH: 8803
DFO: 8776
DFOH: 8841
PotNL: 8796
PotNLH: 8859

There are all pretty close. Issues:
--Reign depends significantly on whether it can proc off of consecutive Starfires. When we start getting to better ICC gear, when most people will be over 600 haste and Starfire is dipping under 1.9s, I'm guessing the answer is no. So I'm inclined to pay more attention to the * values.
--Timered trinkets (DFO/PotNL) are slightly better than they look on papar, since you a get a proc right away when the fight starts.
--Passive crit (MS/PotNL) will get slightly worse if you run up against the crit cap. Something like 50 DPS worse for each.

I'd be happy with whatever two you can get first out of Reign, DFO, and Phylactery. And Muradin's a great 10-man option while you wait.

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This all makes me think--WC probably needs a more user-friendly way to handle trinket effects. Most people probably aren't going to do what I do to test them easily and just type something like "+105*5.5*20/55" into the spellpower field. So I could add a whole bunch of dropboxes like I do for other random effects, that just add certain amounts of spellpower. I'm worried it will be confusing though, since the passive stats will still be included in the basic stats corner (I still want to have the basic stats corner always line up with your Armory stats). On that other hand, that's what I do for Reign already.

Thoughts?

Nibelung: Either a procs-per-minute, or a procs-per-damage amount could explain a Wrath/SF discrepancy.

Of qae's five tests, four of them have between 2.6 and 2.8 procs per million damage done. The outlier, his test #2, is very bad though, at only 1.7 procs per million. Not counting the outlier, the proc was worth about 7% of his total damage (7.5 to 8% of the non-proc damage).

Nibelung: Is it possible that the extra proc rate on Starfire over Wrath is due to the Glyph of Starfire? Could that be putting an additional hidden harmful spell trigger on that spell that Wrath doesn't have (which extends the duration of moonfire, if present)?

Regarding Nature's Focus:
I missed having NF when I went full IGotW and Furor, so just this week I adjusted my single-target spec to have 0/3 Intensity and 2/3 NF but still keeping IGotW and Furor. With Concentration Aura, it should amount to 100% pushback reduction. On Deathwhisper last night I ended the fight with approximately 100% mana, so clearly I'm not missing out on anything.

My secondary spec is for AOE/25-Anub-H/Saurfang, and has 2/3 Itensity, since if I'm casting lots of Hurricane, I'd prefer to keep some spirit-based regen. Not everyone has two Balance specs, though, so borrowing from Intensity may not be an option.

As I said, all the tests I performed were with SF glyph.. Didn't think it would matter since I didnt use MF on my tests, but I will try again without it.

*edit : currently testing, had a proc on a non-crit Starfire casted under OoC -> pretty much rules out the negative effect of Ooc on proc*

Regarding back to movement DPS. For a fight like Festergut or Rotface where a lot of movement is occuring, does anyone thing intentionally clipping dots while moving will result in a higher DPS increase over letting them tick and just running around not spending GCDs?

Also, regarding 2P T10, since IS and MF aren't endlessly renewable, do they keep the 15% damage for the entire duration or does the damage automatically scale down during dot time?

What I mean is, say you have your 2PT10 proc'd, and you cast moonfire and IS during it, will the 15% extra damage continue for the ENTIRE duration of the dot, or will it automatically scale down once Omen of Doom expires? They made these changes to channeling spells, and certian dots that continue infinitly (Ala Spriests)

Yes, the DoT keeps the +15%dmg until the end even if the buff drop, unlike Hurricane.

So then, if say I'm on the move during Festergut to get to a spore, if my DoT's are applied with the 15% buff, should I bother clipping and refreshing while on the move if I don't have Omen of Doom proc'd, or should I just allow the dots to run full duration then reapply?

If the dots are about to drop you can still clip them.. Just don't clip them too early if they were casted with the +15%


Concerning the tests, I just did 3000 SF after removing the SF glyph, and the proc chance definately drops alot.. To the point where 1000 casts aren't reliable at all (that's why I did more)

Test 5 : NG=1/Moonkin form=1/OoC=1/E&M=0/SF glyph=0

- 1000 SF -> 14 Valkyrs
- 1000 SF -> 9 Valkyrs
- 1000 SF -> 7 Valkyrs

(as you can see 1000 casts aren't enough at all)

30 Valkyrs in 3000 casts.. sounds right. So SF glyph should account for a +100% proc chance on SF if I had to guess.

More to come.

edit :
Double checked with 3000 Wrath, got 29 Valkyrs, so that put Wrath on line with Starfire.. which will allow me to use Wrath from now as it's quite faster especially considering the number of casts needed.
We may be able to considere SF as having a hidden hit as well as the actual hit as long as we use the SF glyph (which could be useful in the future if other item with procs show up).

NG procing the Valkyr is still to be determined.. It should be in the range of +36% chance to proc for the last tests, but since I end up with ~1.0% chance to proc without accounting for NG, it means that either the real proc rate is more in the area of 0.8%, or 3000 casts aren't still enough to see it.

NG proced by heals doesn't seems to proc the Valkyr, and believe me I tried, but it could be a different mechanism used for heals and damaging spells.. To be continued.

Still more to come, I should be able to start the E&M tests tomorrow.

I havn't seen this discussed here yet and I've been wondering..

Does anyone know wether Genesis will affect the damage done by Languish?
I'm assuming not, but if it did would this make it worth putting any extra points into instead of Gale Winds/Typhoon/Frenzy?

Don't think anyone knows yet. It might. Still wouldn't make Genesis significantly stronger.