I've been doing some playing around with rawr to determine the correct pieces of loot to drop, and, I don't know if it has been previously discussed, but, I found it strange that there was a better 277 cloth piece with 2 sockets for gloves than the resto tier piece as the replacement, yet, there wasnt a better option for legs when Leather of Stitched Scourge Parts should have been an option. Comparing those to the resto 277 piece, I noticed that rawr has them at the exact same statblock, same ilvl, but for some reason, the tier piece is better in haste, sp. My guess is that the pants are missing a gem slot on rawr.

With dropping t9 2pc, the value of crit past the cap seems to be quite a bit lower than haste past cap, and both of those pieces happen to be the spirit/haste items which should be the desired 277 creation.

Using the tier legs and dropping gloves with Handguards of Winter's Respite, you can get a projected 10249.04 DPS with hit cap sans Draenei. This is with 36 sp worth of socket bonuses unregistered, so that number is slightly higher. Hit pieces chosen are obviously the tier legs, Brittle Bracers, Exalted ring, and the wildcard piece I used for both was Amulet of the Silent Eulogy. Undeniably, because horde don't have hit aura, this will be the best option. Draenei aura always makes things complicated.

Using the opposing setup, with tier gloves, dropping tier legs for Leather of Stitched Scourge Parts(assuming they have the third slot), I was able to easily grab Draenei hit cap with the exact same pieces, but pull out 28 more dps, represented in syphoning the hit into slightly more useful stat(spirit).

Both sets contained around 900 haste, as that was my primary focus in terms of gemming, both were missing said 36 SP in gemming bonuses.

Because I controlled everything else, the pure statistical transition between the two is (stam/int/spr/sp/crit/hit/haste)

T10Gloves+co T10Legs+co
252 252
252 252
122 90
432 412
90 122
82 106
98 94

Net difference is 32 spirit, 20 spell power, 4 haste in favor of using gloves, 32 crit, 24 hit in favor of legs. Assuming the 20 spell power is roughly equal to the 32 crit, we can assume that the 24 hit will almost certainly outweigh 4 haste and 32 spirit if the hit is useful, but if it clips use in any way, the glove combination is better, which is why it is better for alliance.

That being said, DFO's proc isn't in the system, and the synergy between haste on that trinket and everything else could throw lots of things off.

Still, I find that the horde should be dropping the gloves, and alliance should drop the pants if they are going to be guaranteed a draenei.

I'm a little confused. When you ran tests 1-4 did you have Moonfire up on the target? If not, I'm not sure how Glyph of Starfire would proc a Val'kyr, since the glyph wouldn't do anything.

Of course, it could be the result of how the glyph and the proc are coded.

We have no way to verify this, but want to try and think it through. The tool tip said that the Val'kyr has a chance to proc off of harmful spells. What if the Glyph of Starfire, extends the MF dot by casting a "harmful spell" internally that just adds 3 seconds on to the dot. Then if, the Nibelung determines its proc before the glyph actually adds time, each cast of Starfire is like casting 2 spells; the Starfire itself and the potential MF extention. That could explain the higher SF proc rate.

We don't have to spend points in to Improved Moonfire,after we have 3 pieces of Tier10 right?
So,which talent will you give those 2 points? (assume that i have 2 points in Gale Winds.)

Owlkin Frenzy looks like better than 2 points in Genesis if i'm not wrong.

This is pretty much what we've been conjecturing (and starting to support with data) for the last page or so. Glyph of Starfire and the E&M application both seem to be providing extra proc chances.

You still need the points to go down in the tree.

Unless you have a build with 12 or more points in the first two tiers, those two points in Imp. Moonfire are likely part of the 10 points in Balance you need to be able to access tier 3 talents.

Look here Moonkin Raiding and a few posts since where some people posted numbers.

Something isn't modeling this correctly. I recently hit the crit softcap in my current gear.

Prior to that, WrathCalcs + Simcraft were giving me similar, if not identical, stat values.

Now that I'm over the cap WrathCalcs is saying that crit is still a bit better than haste, giving me the following values:

Spellpower 1.71 DPS (Normalized to 1.00)
Spell Crit 1.05 DPS (Normalized to 0.614)
Spell Haste 1.00 DPS (Normalized to 0.585)

Simcraft is telling me that haste is a bit better than crit, giving me the following stat values:

Spellpower 1.6686 (Normalized to 1.00)
Spell Crit 0.8857 (Normalized to 0.5308)
Spell Haste 1.0744 (Normalized to 0.6439)

I'm using all the same raid buffs, talents etc in both tools. In Simcraft I'm using a low latency, 300 sec, Patchwerk style fight.

I'm currently more inclined to believe SimCraft over WrathCalcs.

Yes, I realize that our BiS gear has both. What I'm looking at right now is my yellow socket gemming.

Is there anyone out there with a better understanding of why I'm getting such different results?

Same gear setup, including 2T9, in both?

Yes sir.

WrathCalcs doesn't know I'm rocking a Nibelung of course, but otherwise, yes the gear is the same and I have the correct set bonuses selected in the spreedsheet.

*and Nibelung shouldn't matter as I'm looking at stat scaling, not dps.

Hmm. It's curious because that's right around where you'd land with no 2T9. Maybe take 2T9 off in both and see what happens?

The newest version of the sheet has Nibelung in it. I've been tinkering with it a bit every day--here's my current local version with your Armory stats in it (attached). Only thing to note is that the Nibelung model includes the current conjecture that crits somehow proc the Val'kyr--this increases the scaling factor of crit very slightly (~0.03).

Yeah that's probably the last test we need. I did a few more Starfires myself which seems to confirm E&M and Glyph. Everything suggests NG as well. We'll have to check the 4T10 DoT later, but I think it's pretty likely. Then we can publicize it excessively so it gets nerfed.

I do not know if anybody has put this up yet, but I just got a proc off of Nibelung from Force of Nature.

This was before entering combat, so no dots, debuffs, casts or anything were done prior to casting treants.

Nibelung procs of spell casts. Force of Nature is a spell. Therefore, using it will proc Nibelung.

I ran my icc10 this week with my new Nibelung and got some interesting results.

Marrowgar Valks were 7% of my dps

Deathwhisper i got 1 proc right at the end of the fight for 5k total damage.

Deathbringer Saurfang it was 5% of my dps.

Festergut i only have data for one wipe at around 30%, Sometimes when engaging fetergut my addons break, recount, combat logging and the dot/debuff tracking part of S&A but it still tracks eclipse.

Festergut the valks appear not to die 5% of my DPS.

Professor Putricide between the 4 wipes and the kill was between 1.5 and 5% of my damage.

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

This has probably already been said, but the valks can proc off any pulse of hurricane.

Here are the last tests :

Test 8 :
NG=0/Moonkin form=1/OoC=1/E&M=1
3697 casts -> 88 Valkyrs -> 2.38%

Test 8 :
NG=0/Moonkin form=0/OoC=1/E&M=1
3543 casts -> 73 Valkyrs -> 2.06%

So it could be the mana return from Moonkin form.. But any waywith a ~36% crit we are looking at a 0.36% chance to proc, which is really small, so I'm pretty sure we would need like 10k+ casts to start seeing anything.

Previous tests already demonstrated 0.97% chance to proc on 12k casts, which is just about the value Blizzard advertised (1%). This 0.97% is already taking into account any procs supposedly coming from NG/Moonkin form, which would put the real proc chance at around 0.7%.
Disregard the very first tests I did since it could just be (un)lucky shots, seen that 1000 casts is just a bit low to conclude anything.

If the proc rate is indeed 1% as advertised, then NG/Moonkin form doesnt have any impact.

It's pretty safe to say that with E&M and SF glyph :
SF = 3% chances to proc
Wrath = 2% chances to proc
Any other spells = 1% chances to proc

If someone feels like doing 100k casts with no RotD/any stuff that can proc anything to prove otherwise feel free to do it

Yeah I posted the last 2 tests mainly because.. well because I did them. But I don't really think they prove anything. The value I expected for Test 8 was 1.7% if NG did proc it, or 2% if NG got no impact, so getting 2.38% just proves that even nearing 4k casts the datas are still damn innacurate.

If I had a way to do 100k+ casts without dieing of sheer boredom I would do it just to be sure but well.. I dont.

Just read a blue post how they fixed (possibly a work in progress) the proc weapons, still wondering if nibelung is performing as well as before or has it been nerfed.

I just tried a quick Starfire spam test, got 13/443 procs. That's 2.93%, with enough casts to disprove a 1% proc rate beyond 95% confidence. So probably nothing changed. Oh, also, I got two procs from the same Starfire at one point.

I was half-serious above where I said that we don't want to stress this to point where it gets nerfed. I'm probably only going to pass on the results that it looks like the top DPS weapon for us if the Val'kyr don't get killed. No point making a really big deal about the weird proc mechanics.

any of u guys can share some tips about the new use of gotw to proc ooc for 2t10 bonus?
i found that using it while moving and before casting any cd(treant/starfall) and renewing the dots gives a nice dps boos.

I just added a bit about that to the guide. I'd not thought about using it before Treants, I'll look into that. I'll check Starfall too, but I think that one's probably not worth it. Starfall doesn't do all that much damage per cast. Also, won't Starfall stars stop benefitting once the buff ends? And it's not worth using a GCD just to buff DoT's by 15%.

e: whoops, it wouldn't do anything for Treants. It only buffs Arcane/Nature damage dealt by the player.

Interesting data for the staff, how about when the glyph has reached its maximum, will the proc chance move towards 2% after that, or continue to take the glyph into account even though the moonfire isn't extended?