Moonkin Raiding - Page 119

Kaug · 07/14/09, 11:03 AM

I think it will a small buff in most cases.

1. This allows you you split your innervates between multiple targets. Ex Healer dies, you BR and innervate them, then 3 min later use the second innervate on yourself. Which should be nice since BRs are largely what put me into potential mana problems in the first place. This assumes you would oom before 6 more minutes pass and\or boss would live that long. Ex2, as someone said, you could innervate 2 healers giving each a boost to last the fight instead of making one end the fight with 40% mana left while the other is oom

2. If you innervate early and often, you will always get as much mana as now and often get more much more. This assumes first 3m innervate at 2min and then recast when it is available again, rounded up innervate to 15.8k.

 
Time     2m      5m        8m      11m
3m I      7.9k  15.8k     23.7k    31.6k
6m I      0     15.8k     15.8k    31.6k

3. Since it will be available again so much sooner, people will be less stingy and innervate themselves and others more often. You see it with BRs and heroism already. We used to horde them, they are used much more freely today since they be up soon, in time for next boss attempt if we wipe in the case of heroism, even with just 1 shammy in the raid.

In a way innervate will be more like chain mana potting in the old days. You'd use asap without wasting hoping to get one more later in the fight vs current innervate where 2 in 1 fight is a rare occurrence so you save till you are nearly oom hoping to snatch a few more replenishment tics while you're near bottom of all mana pools

• Hamlet · 07/14/09, 11:44 AM

Everyone gets that splitting it into two is strictly better than having to use it all together. The only cost is the extra GCD.

Altiris · 07/14/09, 12:17 PM

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I wouldn't say it's "strictly better". For example, a short, aoe heavy fight (say 3 minutes), where you are likely to run out of mana very fast. You could only use either innervate once because neither would see their cooldown refresh, but one of them gets you twice as much mana as the other.

• Hamlet · 07/14/09, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Altiris

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I wouldn't say it's "strictly better". For example, a short, aoe heavy fight (say 3 minutes), where you are likely to run out of mana very fast. You could only use either innervate once because neither would see their cooldown refresh, but one of them gets you twice as much mana as the other.

Right, forgot about that.

Poromu · 07/14/09, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ranghar

Do you really think that there will be fights where you don't have a single spare GCD every 3 minutes? Patchwerk went the way of dodo.

Well of course you will have spare gcd's while moving, but like always those could be used to boost dps. whether it be DoT clipping, iFF, Typhoon, Starfall, FoN or a 4pct8 proc. I mean, we find time to Innervate as it is, I was only mentioning the downfall to the change and yes, it is a direct nerf to DPS spending twice as many gcd's on mana in 3.2 compared to current.

Either way, it's not really a dramatic difference nor is there any really theorycrafting that can improve it's usage. I would honestly rather read more about the 4pc 258 V.S. 2pct8/2pc 258.

Xerophyte · 07/14/09, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by klüger

one thing though, with 3.2 the new eclipse comes, and unless the icd of lunar is such that you can chain it, you will be casting a lot more wraths, which will mean our mana-need goes up some.

That particular effect does quite the opposite, actually. Wrath is already less MPS drained than Starfire thanks to Moonkin Form and Judgment of Wisdom both having increased returns on faster spells. The reason Starfire-as-filler has better mana efficiency as a whole right now is because Lunar Eclipse gives more mana than Solar Eclipse, but that'll be equal in 3.2. What will possibly nudge our overall mana efficiency downwards is a lower Lunar uptime in 3.2, but this doesn't seem like it would be sufficient.

Rawr gives, with a fairly arbitrary BiS set, our DPS/DPM right now as 312.166 MPS now and the same in 3.2 as 312.028 MPS. They're not factoring any mana returns and I do not know how accurate they are. Assuming they're not completely off then the mana gain from fitting nearly twice as many casts, and thus opportunities to proc JoW and Moonkin, between our Lunars in 3.2 should easily outpace the mana loss from slightly delaying Lunar.

Videl · 07/16/09, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Altiris

Edit: Actually, there's a short amount of time equal to the elapsed time before your first 3 minute innervate where you can get three 3 minute innervates but only one 6 minute innervate, but that and the corresponding time every 6 minutes thereafter are the only fight lengths for which it is a buff. For all other periods in the fight it is a nerf or no change to personal mana regen.

I wouldn't downplay this window too much. It's about 2 minutes long and occurs in the 8-10 minute window of the fight, which is about the time I'm prone to running out of mana in current yogg, if I'm gonna run out of mana at all.

Moofire87 · 07/17/09, 10:16 AM

I so don't get it...

I am a 4/5 t8,5 moonkin and my dps in the old raids like naxx sarth3d malygos or archa/emalon is very high5-6 dps without flask, but is very anything with ulduar (except xt or general) my dps is so low, i duell myself with the tanks. I don#t get it, most of the time i play lunareclipse.

The most shocking in the last couple of days was ulduar yogg hardmode one light in darkness, my overall dps in the killtry : 1,4k. What is happening? Am i a newbie? Or how do you guys compete with other damgedealer?

my owl:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Bye
Katharina

Knofle · 07/17/09, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Moofire87

I so don't get it...

I am a 4/5 t8,5 moonkin and my dps in the old raids like naxx sarth3d malygos or archa/emalon is very high5-6 dps without flask, but is very anything with ulduar (except xt or general) my dps is so low, i duell myself with the tanks. I don#t get it, most of the time i play lunareclipse.

The most shocking in the last couple of days was ulduar yogg hardmode one light in darkness, my overall dps in the killtry : 1,4k. What is happening? Am i a newbie? Or how do you guys compete with other damgedealer?

my owl:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Bye
Katharina

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

But, to answer your question. Yes, you should do loads more damage. I compete among the top in my guild (our damage dealers aren't top notch).
You must be doing something very wrong, since you don't have any huge flaws in your spec. It must be a targetting / priority or rotation issue.

Read this, do what it says.
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_2_ptr/

edit: That's updated for 3.2 now, but you should still read it.

edit 2: Sorry for not bringing any new and thoughtful information to the table. I was just answering the above poster's question while trying to point her (i presume) in the right direction to find information on how to improve.

• Hamlet · 07/17/09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Knofle

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

But, to answer your question. Yes, you should do loads more damage. I compete among the top in my guild (our damage dealers aren't top notch).
You must be doing something very wrong, since you don't have any huge flaws in your spec. It must be a targetting / priority or rotation issue.

Read this, do what it says.
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_2_ptr/

edit: That's updated for 3.2 now, but you should still read it.

Heh, actually, I didn't get to the spell rotation part when I updated :P.

e: but if you were really doing 5k on Patchwerk, you know the basic rotation issues covered by that thread.

Baranfac · 07/18/09, 6:08 AM

I have a question regarding our spell rotation in 3.2:

Would it be better if we A) alternate Wrath and Starfire until eclipse (that way we wouldn't use a single wrong spell on the eclipse
B) keep to spamming Wrath (or Starfire) until eclipse

Would this change if I got the new 3.2 Idol over the SF one i'm using right now?

Poromu · 07/18/09, 4:18 PM

I think the rotation would stay the same, W til eclipse, then SF til eclipse. Twisting might be viable for the very first Eclipse proc, but I honestly don't think it'll matter that much.

The new Idol will have less bearing on rotation than the current ones do other than wanting at the bare minimum enough MF uptime to keep the proc up. (With 2pct9 100% is probably the bare minimum.)

Oxcrush · 07/20/09, 8:06 PM

Question, does the 2 piece t8 for wrath make the eclipse bonus 45% or 49.5%? (100% damage+30% bonus*1.15)

• Hamlet · 07/20/09, 8:26 PM

Originally Posted by Oxcrush

Question, does the 2 piece t8 for wrath make the eclipse bonus 45% or 49.5%? (100% damage+30% bonus*1.15)

Haven't confirmed experimentally myself, but everyone's definitely been assuming it's 45%. See also:
Item - Druid T8 Balance 2P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Altiris · 07/20/09, 9:44 PM

If you look at either the talent or the buff when you have 2T8 equipped, one (not both, but I forget which) updates to a value of 45%. I think it's the talent.