Moonkin Raiding - Page 125

Nowell · 08/09/09, 9:59 AM

Wondering the same thing, if the new idol is worth it. Has anyone been able to get the idol yet and do some math on it? Is there a hidden CD on the crit proc, and what's the percentage chance to proc?

Szynszyla · 08/09/09, 10:09 AM

Soonest you will be able to obtain the idols on wendsday

Psilo · 08/09/09, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Nowell

Wondering the same thing, if the new idol is worth it. Has anyone been able to get the idol yet and do some math on it? Is there a hidden CD on the crit proc, and what's the percentage chance to proc?

While I'm not sure where this figure came from, comments on WoWHead are saying 70% proc, and with no CD of any sort. The lack of CD seems consistent and reliable.

Without any testing to back this up, this averages about 170+ crit. Can anybody with decent math (not me) run some comparison numbers against [Idol of the Shooting Star]?

Poromu · 08/09/09, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Psilo

When 3.2 hit live servers, I did some rotation tests on training dummies and quickly realized that with Eclipse up almost constantly, neither IS or MF was worth the GCD cost given my gear (no 4pc T8 bonus yet). After consulting my guild leader, we concluded that I might as well drop MF from my rotation and only leave IS up for the boss debuff and eventually for the 4pc T8 bonus. My current build reflects this, including my choice of glyphs. Improved IS was dropped for Owlkin Frenzy in an experimental fashion. I'm curious to see how often Owlkin Frenzy procs and why, as I've read there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what procs it and little consistency on how often.

Granted, in a few weeks (if I'm fortunate), this will all change with the 2pc T9 bonus and/or [Idol of Lunar Fury]. Until then, does this build seem too avant garde?

Additionally, I'm uncertain whether I should spend my first savings of [Emblem of Triumph] on the new Idol or save a bit longer for a T9 piece?

DoT's are still better DPET than nukes, just not crits which is RNG based. Even considering the time spent under Eclipse it's still better DPS to keep DoT's up the majority of your time. I don't see how 3% more dmg on Wrath or 3% more crit on Starfire isn't worth putting up your DoT's aside from their damage which is considerable. I'd have to see some math to believe you on this since nothing's changed except Eclipse up-time, it doesn't change the DPET for each spell.

Owlkin Frenzy is still not a good dps talent and we know what procs it now, non-aura based damage. The mana regen factor of it isn't as good as anything else.

Also about the Idol, if it's 200 crit rating with a 70% proc and no cd, it'd be 100% up-time, so 200 crit, not 170.

Mehknic · 08/09/09, 11:50 AM

Deleted text. Read a tooltip incorrectly.

Szynszyla · 08/09/09, 11:51 AM

Hows does glyph reduce idol uptime? The idol procs off dot ticks.

jtalaimo · 08/09/09, 11:51 AM

before 3.2, there was the solar haste cap of what 300 and than u would want all crit or something to that extent, not really remember since I was lunar and that was always as much haste as you can get, was around 500 or so in raids. Reguardless, with the eclipse changes, I'm sure that's all re worked. Gemming for crit for lunar cycles have become more important maybe?

Anyone know what's the best gear selection now with eclipse change, keep haste around 450 or so and all crit after that?? (obviously knowing that SP is still best) Or should we go for more crit, try to get it around 30% unbuffed? Totally ball parking here, but I haven't seen much written about the gearing changes and I know I had to change a bit already to improve my crit.

Starfox · 08/09/09, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Poromu

Also about the Idol, if it's 200 crit rating with a 70% proc and no cd, it'd be 100% up-time, so 200 crit, not 170.

I'd like to see your math how a 70% proc chance leads to a 100% uptime. Because for me it is more around 84%.

bilgatus · 08/09/09, 12:15 PM

I guess it's a good idea to switch starfall glyph to starfire.
the elongation of monnfire plus the 3% crit bonus prolly pushes the uptime of eclipse...

In fact the rota is easier than before, but the correct order is not easy to evaluate...

• Hamlet · 08/09/09, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

I'd like to see your math how a 70% proc chance leads to a 100% uptime. Because for me it is more around 84%.

70% proc on tick, 12s duration. Assuming constant MF refreshing, the chances of it being up in any given 3s block are (1 - .3^4), which is greater than 99%.

Jezz · 08/09/09, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by jtalaimo

before 3.2, there was the solar haste cap of what 300 and than u would want all crit or something to that extent, not really remember since I was lunar and that was always as much haste as you can get, was around 500 or so in raids. Reguardless, with the eclipse changes, I'm sure that's all re worked. Gemming for crit for lunar cycles have become more important maybe?

Anyone know what's the best gear selection now with eclipse change, keep haste around 450 or so and all crit after that?? (obviously knowing that SP is still best) Or should we go for more crit, try to get it around 30% unbuffed? Totally ball parking here, but I haven't seen much written about the gearing changes and I know I had to change a bit already to improve my crit.

I suggest you read the beginner guide (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...updated_3_2_a/) all of what you asked is in there.

Starfox · 08/09/09, 7:50 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

70% proc on tick, 12s duration. Assuming constant MF refreshing, the chances of it being up in any given 3s block are (1 - .3^4), which is greater than 99%.

Yea, kinda reasonable. >:X

Ruin · 08/09/09, 8:57 PM

I was looking for new trinkets, and the haste stack one is "meh" as it uncontrollably mucks with speed, so that leaves Reign of the Dead:
Reign of the Dead - Items - Sigrie

a solid 150 SP makes it comparable to dragon soul/broodmother but I'm having trouble with the proc and how good it is. Is that 2 min cooldown real? in which case the proc is total crap, otherwise extremely retarded and quick math (that I did in my head which is very very flawed), spamming wraith, ignoring if 2t9 procs it, and 50ish % crit you'll get it evey 9-10 secs? putting it at 10 seconds make the proc worth: 190dps X crit rate; does it do double damage or +50%?

Basically I'm wondering if somebody with way better math skills then me can quantify the proc, though -do to lack of other choices- it might be only academic.

And can you get the normal and heroic version equipped?

debulla · 08/09/09, 9:09 PM

This weekend i pugged two Naxx-Runs, 25- and 10-man, and i experienced a nasty scheme: I ran oom. Even during Loatheb, crits all over the place, i went to about 30% of my mana, rethinking my gearing strategy completely. DPS was surprisingly good, 4.5-6.2k, depending on the encounter, so i generally happened to be in the top3 on par or slightly behind our better-equipped warlocks, who really had a hard time battleing me damage-wise (sry for my english if sth. sounds weird^^).

However, since wednesday my manareg is completely screwed. Even with pala and priest-manareg-buffs i would run oom e.g. during the patchwerk-fight if i didn`t innervate, actually i was forced to take mana-potions. Ironically one week ago i thought of reducing my 2/3 intensity and 3/3 moonglow (because of vezax i took it), today i struggle if i put 2 points into Genesis and 1 point into Moonglow, leaving 1 point for intensity or dream state. I even dropped a ring with haste in favour of crit..

Has anyone else experienced those mana-problems? I always thought i had a good balance of dmg and replenishment stats (about 23% crit in oomkin-form and 624 spirit).....

This led me to the question if the new ticks of the now critting moonfire-ticks (with 2t9) also replenish mana granted by the moonkin-form. Is a tick of a dot a spell critical strike?

Poromu · 08/10/09, 12:16 AM

The only fight I experienced the slightest mana trouble was XT hard. I made it through and I think most of that was just not using my IV soon enough. In fact with the Vezax change i'm speccing out of Moonglow in my normal spec for 1/3 Brambles and 3/3 Nature's Focus. I also dropped IMotW for Focus talent which is a small small hit to dps and survivability for the valuable in a situation pushback resist.

Working on Alg tonight I realized how key Nature's Focus is to making this relationship between Solar and Lunar work. I've learned to appreciate DoT's more in my rotation as the more consistent damage in most scenario's and using the cancel Lunar Eclipse macro in the other thread I was able to chain every single transition from Lunar to Solar. I found all 3 of these to help immensely generally topping meters for ranged and beating out a good chunk of the melee, I was vastly impressed with my own dps.

I hope to see some theory craft behind the DoT's and Eclipses, I mean optimally we want to refresh when Eclipse is on cd, but realistically with the cancelaura macro it seems right to refresh them ASAP.