Moonkin Raiding - Page 13

Lilija · 12/17/08, 9:03 AM

When comparing eclipse spec with SF spam spec I came to a conclusion that eclipse has more max dps potential but is definitly less stable. As said above it's all about the RNG and gear improvement.

But I am actually wondering if at some level of haste it wouldn't be good to come back to spamming SF again.

skeldi · 12/17/08, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lilija

When comparing eclipse spec with SF spam spec I came to a conclusion that eclipse has more max dps potential but is definitly less stable. As said above it's all about the RNG and gear improvement.

But I am actually wondering if at some level of haste it wouldn't be good to come back to spamming SF again.

Probably too high to be obtainable. Also until we have a set bonus that doesn't favor eclipse

Yolanya · 12/18/08, 5:15 AM

I am struggling with the math for potion usage at the moment.

We have two options for maximised DPS: [Potion of Wild Magic] or [Potion of Speed].

Obviously it should be used during a bloodlusted Eclipse:Starfire, but which potion is the better choice?
The crit bonus of [Potion of Wild Magic] seems rather useless because of the high crit chance of an eclipsed Starfire (similar to [Destruction Potion] combined with Combustion in my old days as a firemage), but the haste bonus of [Potion of Speed] cannot squeeze out another starfire during the eclipse duration according to my calculations; maybe my haste rating and latency are suboptimal for that.

Has anyone tested these potions on Patchwerk already?

mokg · 12/18/08, 5:31 AM

I generally will use a speed potion when my trinket procs. I've never really cared for spreadsheets or numbers because they almost never reflect in game results.

I played a warrior all throughout TBC and nearly all spreadsheets +"common knowledge" ended up turning up incorrect only near the end the expansion.

Eilt · 12/18/08, 8:13 AM

I am pretty sure it boils down to itemization costs...

45 crit rating is about 1% crit so the crit from wild magic is ~1.3% + 180 SP for 15 seconds
32 haste is about 1% so you gain > 15% haste for 15 seconds with speed pots

I would think with haste costing so much less (and speed pots giving so much of it) that it will be the better choice.

Olddrippy · 12/18/08, 6:00 PM

Am I missing something or are Destro pots better because they say flat 2% plus spell power when Wild Magic is closer to 1% crit.....

Is the destro pot tooltip poorly worded so that it doesn't give 2% at lvl 80?

One point in time where I would love more crit or more casts squeezed in is when you are spamming wrath to try and get the eclipse crit buff to starfire, but moonfire is ticking down and you haven't used your x3 starfires yet. If you cast starfire to extend the moonfire you have a very good chance of getting the yucky version of eclipse, and if you let moonfire fall off before extending it you have to refresh it sooner wasting dps time.

So I could see using a speed pot or crit pot when you really want to get eclipse from wrath asap, but then again haste obviously helps starfire a lot more so maybe it would be a waste.

Edit: wow though 1% crit for 15 seconds and not being able to use another pot for the rest of the fight seems really weak

Alerian · 12/19/08, 12:12 PM

Hm, that's certainly an interesting question about Destro pots. Even if they were 2%, the haste potion would still be much better though, so I would recommend using that. If you do use a haste potion, my hunch has been that you would ignore Eclipse procs and just MF/SF until it drops, similar to the rotation you would use during Heroism. This is even more true in late Naxx gear as I'm running 18% haste and the haste pot would make Wrath casting a notable dps drop.

Unknownchamp · 12/23/08, 1:30 PM

Might just be that I've had some latency issues recently... but has anyone else noticed Eclipse proc'ing off of IS or MF?

Trouble · 12/23/08, 1:41 PM

My experience has been that twisting Wrath and Starfall isn't really worth it. It only procs when the spell actually lands on the target, which means with travel time you'll already be casting the wrong spell by the time the proc goes off, so no net gain. Has anyone seen something different?

Protokoll · 12/23/08, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Unknownchamp

Might just be that I've had some latency issues recently... but has anyone else noticed Eclipse proc'ing off of IS or MF?

No, I haven't noticed that. You have to take into account that Wrath has a travel time and if you're a significant distance from the boss you're attacking, there will be a delay between when the cast finished and when the spell hits/crits the mob.

Is there a general consensus as to whether it's worth it to attempt proccing Eclipse with Wrath during Bloodlust? To clarify, Moonfire is active, Bloodlust is active, and your Eclipse is not on cooldown. Is it worth it to cast Wrath and clip the GCD for an extra 30% crit on Starfire during Bloodlust? I've been experimenting and as of right now my basic philosophy is if there is enough time left on Bloodlust to get a full duration Eclipse proc, it is worth it to cast Wrath -- otherwise, it's better to continue casting Starfire.

Does anyone have any solid math or experiences to this end?

Edit: Fixed the crit chance.

mokg · 12/23/08, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Protokoll

No, I haven't noticed that. You have to take into account that Wrath has a travel time and if you're a significant distance from the boss you're attacking, there will be a delay between when the cast finished and when the spell hits/crits the mob.

Is there a general consensus as to whether it's worth it to attempt proccing Eclipse with Wrath during Bloodlust? To clarify, Moonfire is active, Bloodlust is active, and your Eclipse is not on cooldown. Is it worth it to cast Wrath and clip the GCD for an extra 15% crit on Starfire during Bloodlust? I've been experimenting and as of right now my basic philosophy is if there is enough time left on Bloodlust to get a full duration Eclipse proc, it is worth it to cast Wrath -- otherwise, it's better to continue casting Starfire.

Does anyone have any solid math or experiences to this end?

If it helps you any, I always proc eclipse using wrath during bloodlust. And it's 30% crit.

feadz · 12/23/08, 8:30 PM

i have tried doing wrath to proc sf eclipse during a bloodlust and found it to be to random. Sometimes you just wont proc eclipse quick enough and you waste allot of time you could have been using sf.

Alerian · 12/25/08, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Trouble

with travel time you'll already be casting the wrong spell by the time the proc goes off, so no net gain. Has anyone seen something different?

This has been my experience. That combined with the amounts of lag in Naxx on Medivh has made me not bother with twisting.

Originally Posted by Protokoll

Is there a general consensus as to whether it's worth it to attempt proccing Eclipse with Wrath during Bloodlust?

During the beta thread's life, someone did the math that showed it was best to ignore Eclipse during Heroism/Bloodlust and only do MF/SF. This has been my experience as well.

mokg · 12/25/08, 2:47 AM

Originally Posted by Alerian

During the beta thread's life, someone did the math that showed it was best to ignore Eclipse during Heroism/Bloodlust and only do MF/SF. This has been my experience as well.

There's no reason not to go for eclipse during heroism. Wrathing is comparable dps to starfire, you're not clipping unless you're critting. If you're critting you're more then likely proccing eclipse.

Alerian · 12/25/08, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by mokg

There's no reason not to go for eclipse during heroism. Wrathing is comparable dps to starfire, you're not clipping unless you're critting. If you're critting you're more then likely proccing eclipse.

At roughly ilvl 213 and higher gear levels, Wrath's base cast time in MK form is less than 1.3 seconds. Heroism/Bloodlust lowers that number to less than 1 second.