Moonkin Raiding - Page 133

Rosoo · 09/01/09, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dráconus

I have been wondering if people have any tips for 0 lights. So far have been making sure to try to refresh dots after every lunatic gaze, with a few wraths/starfires as well. During gaze have been single target dpsing adds. I have been wondering though: what is the value of starfall vs starfire glyph during phase 3 do to starfire refreshing of MF rarely is effective do to frequent target switches of adds and not knowing which eclipse will be up after lunatic gaze? Would certain modifications to the 58/0/13 spec I currently use help? (The World of Warcraft Armory). Curious how other crit chickens have handled this fight.

Well, you can refresh IS whenever you want, so that should be near 100% uptime on Yogg. A boomkin's biggest boon on yogg0 is his ability to pump out massive AOE during the 3 or 4 mark blooms. This might've been a bigger deal during prenerf, as a lot of the numbers I (and other druids that I sampled) was putting out topped all other AOE except rogues. If you're just looking for yogg DPS, try dropping IS on the adds during gaze so you can hopefully proc more instant starfires. Play good, go into p3 with as much sanity as possible, and dps yogg right up until he gazes (losing 4sanity each time that happens so you get as much possible time on him.)

diratheman · 09/03/09, 12:46 AM

I have just got 2pce T9 ( i was lucky to get the gloves of the new VoA boss)
when i was testing the 2set i didnt see [Nature's Grace] proc on the crits tic of MF.

I remember see a post that the fix it in the ptr so it would proc.

Does anyone know anythink about this

Poromu · 09/03/09, 9:55 AM

NG will not be proccing off MF crits.

Lord BEEF · 09/03/09, 10:35 AM

I've run into an issue that I didn't really see coming, at least so soon. I've nearly hit the crit cap for starfire under lunar eclipse.

With the idol up, and full raid buffs I'm right around 39.7% crit chance on my character screen. Add 45% from eclipse, 4% from nature's majesty talent, 3% from improved faerie fire, and that brings me to 91.97%. Then the target can have improved scorch for 5%, and totem of wrath or similar effect for 3%, bringing me to 99.97%. Taking improved insect swarm at this point would push me over the cap.

Ideally I'll solve for this by getting a spellpower trinket instead of a crit trinket, but I'm wondering how much crit devalues after the starfire eclipse cap.

Nysius · 09/03/09, 10:52 AM

I don't think crit will have a lot of change in value after you've gone over the lunar eclipse 100% crit cap. You will (probably) soon lose the 15% extra crit bonus from your 2piece t8 and replace it with 4piece t9. (Thats what I'm planning to do at least). Apart from that I think crit doesn't give a lot of benefit at all to your lunar eclipse, but more to solar eclipse and getting the proccing of eclipse up.

While talking about crit, I am currently at the point where I am well over 400 haste. I found it actually more benefitting for my dps to gem Potent Ametrine's instead of Reckless ones, as I am already well over the soft haste cap. Is it true that crit benefits you more after 400 haste than haste rating? Or should I go back, or maybe even go for Runed Cardinals?

• Hamlet · 09/03/09, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

I've run into an issue that I didn't really see coming, at least so soon. I've nearly hit the crit cap for starfire under lunar eclipse.

With the idol up, and full raid buffs I'm right around 39.7% crit chance on my character screen. Add 45% from eclipse, 4% from nature's majesty talent, 3% from improved faerie fire, and that brings me to 91.97%. Then the target can have improved scorch for 5%, and totem of wrath or similar effect for 3%, bringing me to 99.97%. Taking improved insect swarm at this point would push me over the cap.

Ideally I'll solve for this by getting a spellpower trinket instead of a crit trinket, but I'm wondering how much crit devalues after the starfire eclipse cap.

My spreadsheet already caps crit at 100%, so if you input a setup with capped crit, it will give you a marginal value. Just trying it out now, I see it to be worth slightly less than post-cap haste, around half as much as spellpower. 2T9 would bring that back up a little though.

fluids · 09/04/09, 9:34 AM

So now that all of ToC is out I'm looking how I can tweak my build for the encounters. Looking at the fights I've come to the conclusion that:
1. there's quite a bit of raid damage
2. i can't see any situation where i'll use hurricane
So it seems like it's time to throw the points in Gale Winds over to Owlkin Frenzy. Plan on keeping Typhoon because it's useful defensively against the champs and Anub's adds.

On to my real question that I think might be debatable. Once 4pc t8 is dropped for 2pc t9, is there any gain in dropping Glyph of IS for Starfall, and switching the points from IS and IIS to max out OF (and maybe pts in Brambles?) with the assumption of dropping IS completely from my rotation?

klüger · 09/04/09, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by fluids

So now that all of ToC is out I'm looking how I can tweak my build for the encounters. Looking at the fights I've come to the conclusion that:
1. there's quite a bit of raid damage
2. i can't see any situation where i'll use hurricane
So it seems like it's time to throw the points in Gale Winds over to Owlkin Frenzy. Plan on keeping Typhoon because it's useful defensively against the champs and Anub's adds.

On to my real question that I think might be debatable. Once 4pc t8 is dropped for 2pc t9, is there any gain in dropping Glyph of IS for Starfall, and switching the points from IS and IIS to max out OF (and maybe pts in Brambles?) with the assumption of dropping IS completely from my rotation?

Seeing how iis has 3% crit for starfire and 3% dmg from wrath, while what you would substitute it with has what? 15%dmg from treants?

I'd move gale winds to OF and call it a day.

bodvarbjarki · 09/04/09, 12:12 PM

Or...unglyph IS because tanks get hit hard on heroic.

fluids · 09/04/09, 12:21 PM

Alright but say your IS is not affected by any set bonuses and you dont need the -3% hit debuff is it worth casting (and keeping the glyph)? and if you're not casting it is it worth the crit on starfire (which the majority of the time is under eclipse anyway when your crit is already in the 90s) to pick up IIS? Doesn't seem like it.

supashift · 09/04/09, 1:12 PM

question.... anyone thought if improved moonfire may be worth taking now since it will have a chance to crit with 2 T9

fluids · 09/04/09, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by supashift

question.... anyone thought if improved moonfire may be worth taking now since it will have a chance to crit with 2 T9

From the Moonkin Beginner Guide Thread: "IMF becomes a good DPS talent once you have the 2T9 bonus."

You're only other option is moonglow and mana shouldn't be a major issue anyway.

• Hamlet · 09/04/09, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by fluids

So now that all of ToC is out I'm looking how I can tweak my build for the encounters. Looking at the fights I've come to the conclusion that:
1. there's quite a bit of raid damage
2. i can't see any situation where i'll use hurricane
So it seems like it's time to throw the points in Gale Winds over to Owlkin Frenzy. Plan on keeping Typhoon because it's useful defensively against the champs and Anub's adds.

Has anyone tested which spells in ToC proc OF and which don't?

Fierystix · 09/04/09, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Ideally I'll solve for this by getting a spellpower trinket instead of a crit trinket, but I'm wondering how much crit devalues after the starfire eclipse cap.

Crit above 55% for starfire w/ 2p T8 has the following factors to consider:

1. It increases your up-time on NG outside of lunar eclipse.

2. It increases your chance to proc lunar eclipse by 0.6% per 1% of crit.

3. It increases your wrath damage.

4. It increases your chance to proc solar eclipse by 1% per 1% of crit.

5. It increases your non-eclipse starfire damage.

6. (Conditional) It increases your moonfire damage if you have 2p T9. (Negligible if you don't have 2p.)

#1 also affects the average time it takes for you to get both types of eclipse to proc. The higher your NG uptime, the faster you cast, the faster you proc, the higher your up-time on eclipse gets.

That's not to say SP is not important. It most definitely is. And there are certain combinations of stats that are better. But if you have above 3000 SP raid buffed and you've capped haste, you don't really want to discount crit so easily.

Dráconus · 09/04/09, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Fierystix

Crit above 55% for starfire w/ 2p T8 has the following factors to consider:

1. It increases your up-time on NG outside of lunar eclipse.

2. It increases your chance to proc lunar eclipse by 0.6% per 1% of crit.

3. It increases your wrath damage.

4. It increases your chance to proc solar eclipse by 1% per 1% of crit.

5. It increases your non-eclipse starfire damage.

6. (Conditional) It increases your moonfire damage if you have 2p T9. (Negligible if you don't have 2p.)

#1 also affects the average time it takes for you to get both types of eclipse to proc. The higher your NG uptime, the faster you cast, the faster you proc, the higher your up-time on eclipse gets.

That's not to say SP is not important. It most definitely is. And there are certain combinations of stats that are better. But if you have above 3000 SP raid buffed and you've capped haste, you don't really want to discount crit so easily.

No, but once you cap lunar eclipse crit rate, does crit past this first "soft cap" have a lower value then haste past the soft cap? Some modeling of this issue could prove interesting on which stat to stack after, while also probably pushing intellect to a lower dps value then spirit.