Moonkin Raiding - Page 138

• Hamlet · 09/21/09, 1:51 PM

I think the above is correct (in fact, that's exactly how I have it written up in my guide). You can confirm this all by looking at page 2 of the spreadsheet, which has DPET values for all your spells. Both Eclipsed nukes are similar in DPS, and significantly higher than uneclipsed nukes. So there's no reason to cancel Solar early. This does change during Bloodlust, when you should cancel early if Lunar is off ICD.

That said, Lunar is slightly higher DPS than Solar for most people, so anytime you have a chance of proccing both, go for Lunar. Lunar also has slightly better time to proc, allows you to start casting Wraths earlier (due to travel time), and often saves a GCD due to Moonfire extensions. Finally, with WiseEclipse, Lunar nearly always leads right into Solar anyway, so you definitely want to go for it when you can.

nesf · 09/21/09, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Finally, with WiseEclipse, Lunar nearly always leads right into Solar anyway, so you definitely want to go for it when you can.

The WiseEclipse addon also by default seems to have the option enabled for cancelling Solar automatically if Lunar goes off cooldown during Bloodlust (or at least when I installed it it was enabled). Depending on how this is implemented (I've no idea if it's possible for an addon to take account of how long is left in a buff like Bloodlust) it may or may not be worth enabling/disabling depending on whether you're happy to lose some dps if it cancels Solar towards the very end of a Bloodlust.

• Hamlet · 09/21/09, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by nesf

The WiseEclipse addon also by default seems to have the option enabled for cancelling Solar automatically if Lunar goes off cooldown during Bloodlust (or at least when I installed it it was enabled). Depending on how this is implemented (I've no idea if it's possible for an addon to take account of how long is left in a buff like Bloodlust) it may or may not be worth enabling/disabling depending on whether you're happy to lose some dps if it cancels Solar towards the very end of a Bloodlust.

As currently implemented, it only cancels if more than 15 seconds remain on Bloodlust.

In reality, this feature is pretty moot since, if you're using the addon in the first place, Solar runs out before Lunar comes off ICD.

nesf · 09/21/09, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

As currently implemented, it only cancels if more than 15 seconds remain on Bloodlust.

In reality, this feature is pretty moot since, if you're using the addon in the first place, Solar runs out before Lunar comes off ICD.

Excellent, thank you. The latter depends on one's crit rating no? It's very likely I'll go straight into Solar with 20% crit unbuffed but it's not guaranteed versus the case for you where it pretty much is.

• Hamlet · 09/21/09, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by nesf

Excellent, thank you. The latter depends on one's crit rating no? It's very likely I'll go straight into Solar with 20% crit unbuffed but it's not guaranteed versus the case for you where it pretty much is.

Correct. Still though, it's over 90% for basically everyone.

nesf · 09/21/09, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Correct. Still though, it's over 90% for basically everyone.

Yeah, but the distribution of average time to proc Solar is interesting. For the 10% of the time, the next Starfire will have approx 45% or so chance of proccing Solar meaning on likelihood is around 2 Starfires to proc meaning 4ish seconds lost. It's what makes the soft crit cap so bloody attractive, it means your cycles are far tighter since it removes the above small but not insignificant time loss (as well as improving the time taken to proc Lunar).

The above is off the top of my head, so I could be very wrong here.

Mysteron · 09/22/09, 12:09 PM

Well after my last gear upgrade ([Idol of Lunar Fury] +set 2t9, set 2t8.5 and using resto t9 pants as the 5th items i got 514 haste and 21.78% critical. Also using [Reign of the Unliving] i switch my talent tree and glyphs to THIS , with the rotation of spells: IS MF Wrath until Starfire Eclipse then Starfire x1 IS x1 Starfire till the end of eclipse, MF again and Starfire to enter Wrath eclipse. I have 5600-5800 DPS on Beast of northrend at Trial of the Grand Crusader (25man).
So if anyone has a better idea about talent build with this gear please let me know.

nahz · 09/22/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mysteron

i switch my talent tree and glyphs to THIS

Genesis is a horrible talent for a balance spec. I figure that on average Moonfire/Insect Swarm are going to give me 20% of my DPS during a fight (and that's likely an exaggeration). One percent on that is going to give you .2% DPS. The five points you sink into that talent is giving you one percent overall DPS (again, at best).

Skipping over Force of Nature and Starfall is a huge mistake.

grizadams · 09/22/09, 1:19 PM

It took me a few seconds to wonder where your 54th-58th balance talents had gone. I think that the two points spent in Imp MF are much more beneficial than any points spent in Genesis. Imp MF gives you an additional 5/10% crit AND damage on your Moonfire ticks with 2 t9 as opposed to a 1% increase in damage from MF and IS (which additionally seems to have less uptime nowadays). As an aside, I think a point spent in Genesis is also much less beneficial than the 26k of potential burst from Treants every 3 minutes.
...I don't think much of Genesis is what it comes down to.
Lastly and unrelated, my dps has dropped by as much as 2k on all comparable fights over the last two weeks. This hit suddenly as I'd moved and was without internet for those two weeks, and having tried all of the obvious solutions (that I can think of) the only factor would be that my new internet has a latency of about 80 as opposed to that of 30 previously.

Eilt · 09/22/09, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mysteron

Well after my last gear upgrade ([Idol of Lunar Fury] +set 2t9, set 2t8.5 and using resto t9 pants as the 5th items i got 514 haste and 21.78% critical. Also using [Reign of the Unliving] i switch my talent tree and glyphs to THIS , with the rotation of spells: IS MF Wrath until Starfire Eclipse then Starfire x1 IS x1 Starfire till the end of eclipse, MF again and Starfire to enter Wrath eclipse. I have 5600-5800 DPS on Beast of northrend at Trial of the Grand Crusader (25man).
So if anyone has a better idea about talent build with this gear please let me know.

iMF helps with 2t9, and Force of Nature is a single GCD for 30-40k damage, and I can't even begin to tell you the countless times that Starfall has been proven a DPS gain on single targets, not even to mention the OoC procs and NG uptime factor of the spell.

If you want to put something in genesis, put 1 point from moonglow in it, and put the last 2 points in impMF, take FoN and Starfall, this will leave you with 2 points, I would spend one to max out iIS and if you want 1 in Brambles.

I don't have a large amount of ToC Heroic gear yet, but on a previous NrB Heroic kill I had 5.6k+ DPS, so if you are in higher iLvl I would expect higher numbers.

Mysteron · 09/22/09, 2:26 PM

Well i prefered to add Genesis and not IMF cause IMF doesn't improve the critical (DoT) of MF and if you check i have also have the Glyph of Moonfire that decreasing MF instant dmg to 90% and increase DoT dmg 75%. So if you count +75% MF DoT dmg, +30% IS DoT dmg (glyph of IS) + Genesis you have a really good dmg from your DoT.
Critical (DoT) on MF with that talent build does about 2.5k -3k so i ll rather prefer to have more powerful DoTs than Force Of Nature every 3 minutes.

• Hamlet · 09/22/09, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mysteron

Well i prefered to add Genesis and not IMF cause IMF doesn't improve the critical (DoT) of MF and if you check i have also have the Glyph of Moonfire that decreasing MF instant dmg to 90% and increase DoT dmg 75%. So if you count +75% MF DoT dmg, +30% IS DoT dmg (glyph of IS) + Genesis you have a really good dmg from your DoT.
Critical (DoT) on MF with that talent build does about 2.5k -3k so i ll rather prefer to have more powerful DoTs than Force Of Nature every 3 minutes.

Genesis is a piddling DPS increase. Pretty much anything else in the tree does more.

Onebigbug · 09/22/09, 3:39 PM

I've noticed that Starfire glyph is refreshing moonfire indefinitely, without the 9 second limit in 3.2.2. I can't imagine it is anything but a bug as the tooltip on the glyph still states the 9 second limit. Has anyone heard anything about a change like this though?

• Hamlet · 09/22/09, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Onebigbug

I've noticed that Starfire glyph is refreshing moonfire indefinitely, without the 9 second limit in 3.2.2. I can't imagine it is anything but a bug as the tooltip on the glyph still states the 9 second limit. Has anyone heard anything about a change like this though?

Haha, can someone confirm this? That would be a pretty nice DPS buff. (Surely unintended).

e: confirmed.

nesf · 09/22/09, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mysteron

Well i prefered to add Genesis and not IMF cause IMF doesn't improve the critical (DoT) of MF and if you check i have also have the Glyph of Moonfire that decreasing MF instant dmg to 90% and increase DoT dmg 75%. So if you count +75% MF DoT dmg, +30% IS DoT dmg (glyph of IS) + Genesis you have a really good dmg from your DoT.
Critical (DoT) on MF with that talent build does about 2.5k -3k so i ll rather prefer to have more powerful DoTs than Force Of Nature every 3 minutes.

So you're happy to spend 5 talent points to get a 5% damage increase on two DoTs rather than spend 2 points to get a 10% boost on the one that can crit? I really cannot see how this is a better option..

Even without 2T9, you get almost the same amount of dps from 10% more MF dps than 5% extra IS and MF dps for 3 points less points that you can plug into Force of Nature/IFF/Celestial Focus.