Moonkin Raiding - Page 145

jtalaimo · 10/08/09, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cdin

I think your being a little generous.

First, in my experinse OOC doesn't proc often enough so that the buff would be up 25% of the time. I'll admit I didn't look at a lot of logs, but the couple I did look at showed it procced less than twice a minute. For 25% to be correct it would have to proc 2.5 times per minute, and assume none of the procs over lapped.

Second, your assuming that the buff is Multiplicative. If its additive that would further decrease the value.

OOC procs a good bit, there's a reason why it's our best mana talent. As for the tier if OOC gives us dmg, I might be using a ton of reagants cuz I'll be buffing a ton. I'm just gonna ignore that the 4 set even exists at this point.

• Adoriele · 10/08/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

OoC is 6% on cast (at least I think so; that's the number that's always been in WrathCalcs). Meaning it should proc around 2.5 times/min in a normal rotation. The buff is most likely multiplicative; spell school buffs (as opposed to single-spell buffs) usually are.

For the record, that's not always how it's been modeled. For a while I used a PPM mechanic, and I think I also used a high-chance ICD model at one point, though I can't remember. The PPM mechanic seemed to give decent results for a while, and I think it was in effect because that's how Feral OOC used to (still does?) work, or something. Then they changed it, and 6% is the method that fits best now. There was a bit of looking through logs that happened before I made the switch, so I'm reasonably sure it's correct, unless they changed it again, which I doubt.

Cdin · 10/08/09, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

OoC is 6% on cast (at least I think so; that's the number that's always been in WrathCalcs). Meaning it should proc around 2.5 times/min in a normal rotation. The buff is most likely multiplicative; spell school buffs (as opposed to single-spell buffs) usually are.

* The Logs I've looked at it shows that it procs less then 2.5 times per minute. However, I haven't looked at a ton of them, and that includes some down time when your not casting.

* The 2.5% increase also assumes the player uses all 6 seconds of the buff. In reality it will be less then that because we can't fit a perfect number of spells into the buff.

* The buff may be multiplicative, but it seems a strange way to word the tooltip. Since moonkin can only cast Arcane and Nature spells, why not just make it a global buff and say "increases spell damage by 10%" instead of specifying Arcane and Nature.

Even if it is worth 2.5% damage, it is still the worst Moonkin Set bonus since 2T7. (ignoring 4T10 of course)

ninor · 10/08/09, 4:42 PM

Isn't it quite unusual to tie a set bonus to a talent that you may or may not have? It seems to go a long way to suggest OOC a mandatory talent, which is something I though blizzard didn't really want.

Aym · 10/08/09, 4:46 PM

Blue has confirmed that 4p T10 bonus is -6 seconds off the cooldown to Eclipse. I dont see how we can use this for anything at all. What are we missing?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback

OnyxShadow · 10/08/09, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Aym

Blue has confirmed that 4p T10 bonus is -6 seconds off the cooldown to Eclipse. I dont see how we can use this for anything at all. What are we missing?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback

I've been going over this in my head all day, and here's what I've come up with. Currently, because of the way eclipse works, we need at least one non-eclipsed spell hit to trigger the next eclipse. With a reduction to the cooldown, we will be able to have simultaneous eclipses and thus no "eclipse downtime" IF they change eclipse to allow simultaneous procs. This is tricky because unless it is designed intelligently we could be screwed by the overlapsed eclipse starting too early (this is especially true for the first eclipse in an encounter).

However, if they sort out all the junk that this entails, it could be a pretty nice bonus. Its gonna be interesting to see it tested on a test server.

burnz68 · 10/08/09, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by ninor

Isn't it quite unusual to tie a set bonus to a talent that you may or may not have? It seems to go a long way to suggest OOC a mandatory talent, which is something I though blizzard didn't really want.

Let me fix this: If boomkin, then eclipse. Problem solved.

With the cooldown reduction on eclipse... if you happen to be on lunar cooldown and you haven't proced solar yet, you'll more quickly be able to revert back to wrath-spamming and pick up lunar again, which is the stronger of the two and which should get you back up to your optimal dps faster if you were getting hit by the RNG bat trying to get solar. Of course, the opposite works, should solar ever be the stronger option...

Splade · 10/08/09, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by Zifrelm

People are hitting the crit cap in Lunar as it is. This would only exacerbate the problem.

You say that like it's a BAD thing. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't have an extra 15% worth of crit gear lying around to re-cap me if I dropped 2pc T8.

That's the problem. 2pcT8 is just TOO GOOD. It was a good bonus when it first came out but add in WiseEclipse for a 100% chance to go directly from Lunar -> Solar and avoid the RNG hell that is Balance Druid and it becomes irreplaceable.

• Hamlet · 10/08/09, 6:30 PM

Updated:

4 piece bonus - Your critical strikes from Starfire and Wrath cause the target languish for an additional 5% of your spell's damage over 4 seconds.

Meh. Even if stacks properly on frequent crits, that's like a 3% DPS increase. It's a little better than the 4T9.

Lord BEEF · 10/08/09, 6:59 PM

Originally Posted by Eilt

If you are using hurricane at the right time, it should be hitting 5 trgets, the chances of OoC procing at that point is pretty high. I used my own Innervate twice and with that had no issues, even with AEing and using starfall every CD.

Here's my take on Anub'rhekan

First two phases you have two sets of adds that come. You want to kill the first set of adds as quickly as possible and well before the second set come so you have plenty of time to single target Anub. The second set are likely still going to be there when Anub burrows.

It's been my experience than moonkin single target dps is competitive, but the aoe is starting to fall behind unless you also have nature's grace up. So what I do (which may or may not be optimal) is I'll use starfall and two hurricanes on the first set of adds at which point they're either dead or close to dead and will die from incidental/other aoe. The second set of adds I'll ignore until he burrows and then help finish them off during the kite phase, usually with just a single hurricane.

I repeat this process until the two kite phases are over. While my position on the damage meters will be lower, it becomes a lot easier to get Anub to the % health threshholds in the time you need them, and helps to keep your mana high. I currently run with 2/3 intensity and 1/3 moonglow, though I could probably easily drop a point of intensity and still be fine. I also give out all of my innervates, usually to a mana hungry mage and our holy paladins.

During the sub 30% phase I do a lot more aoe due to the increased danger that the adds present, but my mana hasn't come close to being an issue yet.

Splade · 10/08/09, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

It's a little better than the 4T9.

How?

Both bonuses effect only wrath and starfire

4T9 is a flat 4% damage increase all the time, no matter what.
4T10 is 5% damage increase, but only if you crit.

I know we haven't seen the actual stats on the tier pieces yet, but I remember at the start of Wotlk Blizzard said gear was not itemized perfectly in order to make room for better upgrades at the end of the expansion (Icecrown). With that in mind I better not see one point of spirit on any of the 5 pieces. crit/haste, crit/hit, haste/hit all the way!

Zifrelm · 10/08/09, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

During the sub 30% phase I do a lot more aoe due to the increased danger that the adds present, but my mana hasn't come close to being an issue yet.

I've seen a lot of posts in this thread that make reference to AOE'ing the burrowers on Anub. Is that really effective?

I've always found my single target DPS to be far greater than AOE against 3 targets or less, often 4 targets or less. I always single-target one burrower then the other... Then again, I don't take Gale Winds. Is GW recommended for 25-hard Anub?

Lord BEEF · 10/08/09, 8:44 PM

In heroic 25, you're hitting 5 targets at once (unless some strategies don't do this). At least for our strategy, gale winds is a no brainer.

Skwai · 10/08/09, 10:13 PM

From my post on WoW forums:

Druid Balance

2 Piece

Assuming ~1.5 clearcasting procs per minute ( calculated clearcasting procs / fight time over 2 raid night WWSs)

1.5 ppm = 9 seconds of 2P buff uptime per minute
9 seconds / 1 minute * 100 = 15% uptime

If the buff is up 15% of time and gives 10% damage buff (+10% SP) then the net dps gain is 1.5% which I think is pretty low as a bonus.

I like the idea of RNG net damage gain procs, but I think the damage or duration needs to be increased by about 150% which would yield about a 3.5ish percent damage gain from the set bonus.

4 Piece

Very nice buff (chain critting during a lunar eclipse lol) assuming dots ticked independently of one another and could have multiple dots on at once This ability needs to not auto refresh current dot otherwise with crit strings it wouldn't tick before you crit again, refreshing the buff and resulting in no damage done until you stop stringing crits)

nesf · 10/08/09, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Updated:

Meh. Even if stacks properly on frequent crits, that's like a 3% DPS increase. It's a little better than the 4T9.

Well, if I had the option I'd take a good 2 piece bonus over a good 4 piece bonus and am happy that Blizzard are frontloading the benefits so to speak. If the two were reversed we'd have a lot more to complain about I think.