Moonkin Raiding - Page 147

Starfox · 10/09/09, 7:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rondaru

I hold on to my doubts until I see it in action. Blizzard has a reputation for vague tooltips (do I hear someone say "Innervate"?) and another DoT up on the boss when a general increase of crit damage would have sufficed just doesn't strike me as a very sensible and beneficial to server performance. What's the point in turning our spells into something like Mage Fireballs? Will a critical Wrath DoT overwrite the DoT of a critical Starfire? Why punish us for spam-critting during lunar eclipse when 4T9 held no such handicaps?

And frankly, most set bonuses are basically just the same effect with a minor different mechanics these days. Blizzard seems to run out of ideas of making something interesting that makes our rotation more interactive like the instant Starfire. Frankly, they could just go back to bonuses like "+100 Spelldamage" for all I'd care.

Basically they just give you an addional 1.05 base_crit_multiplier on wrath and starfire, but yea they also could just giev use 30+Tier*10 spellpower as 2piece bonuses and 35+Tier*10 as 4 piece bonuses. And what's your problem with the dot? you have get an additional arcane dot and an additional nature, bothing rolling, all those kind of dots roll.
Or are you just trolling here.

qae · 10/09/09, 10:54 PM

Quick maths seems to show that 4p bonus is an overall 3% dmg boost at 50% average crit on wrath and starfire. Assuming 80% overall dmg coming from our 2 nukes (which is mostly what I get on a typical fight)

But in theory we could reach like 90%+ crit chances on Starfire with the help of Wise Eclipse (only using Starfire under the effect of Lunar Eclipse), While still having 50%~ crit chances on Wrath.. So we may see nice scaling here.

Concerning 2p bonus.. Do you think it could justify doing some stopcasting to get more benefit for the dmg boost of Clearcasting (like refreshing DoT, with maybe some clipping?)

Rondaru · 10/09/09, 11:05 PM

My problem with the DoT is that it will be more sort of a 1.025 crit multiplier during lunar eclipse, because consecutive Starfire crits will keep overwriting each other. And that it further clusters a boss with even more debuffs, probably dropping other debuffs off the boss.

Sure, it's still more DPS in some way. But lately I'm seeing a decline in the quality of our 4-piece-set-bonuses and I'm wondering how this fits into Blizzards scheme while on the other hand they always had to give the Moonkin buffs with each patch to compensate for our degressive crit scaling.

Starfox · 10/09/09, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Rondaru

My problem with the DoT is that it will be more sort of a 1.025 crit multiplier during lunar eclipse, because consecutive Starfire crits will keep overwriting each other. And that it further clusters a boss with even more debuffs, probably dropping other debuffs off the boss.

Rolling DoTs? Deep wounds? Ignite? Shaman T8 Elemental 4P Bonus? Piercing shots?
It is just 5% additional damage on crits, no damage lost

qae · 10/10/09, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Rondaru

And that it further clusters a boss with even more debuffs, probably dropping other debuffs off the boss.

I think there is no longer any issues concerning the number of debuffs on a target. You may not be able to display all of them but according to Blizzard there is no way you can reach a limit right now.

Originally Posted by Rondaru

because consecutive Starfire crits will keep overwriting each other.

If it works like Ignite and deep wounds (and other effects), and assuming it tick every 2sec this is what you will see :

0:00:00 - Starfire crit for 15000 (750dmg in queue)
0:01:90 - Starfire crit for 15000 (1500dmg in queue)
0:03:80 - Starfire crit for 15000 (2250dmg in queue)
0:05:70 - Starfire hit for 7177
0:05:80 - Dot tick for 1125
0:07:60 - Starfire hit for 7177
0:10:00 - Starfire crit for 15000 (1875dmg in queue)
*you stop casting*
0:12:00 - Dot tick for 938
0:14:00 - Dot tick for 937

- The End -

*EDIT : yay 0.9sec SF -_- fix'd*

• Hamlet · 10/10/09, 12:25 AM

Well, you should probably fix your example, since you have Starfire at an 0.9 second cast time. But the idea is right; that's how Ignite works now, and how I think we're currently assuming this set bonus will work.

Akrud · 10/10/09, 12:36 AM

I did some rather simple calculations of average damage to come to an understanding of when, and when not to use IS. The calculations are w/o IS glyph.
Wrath Starfire Moonfire Insect Swarm
Base: 3000 5500 14516.96 5964
Average Damage: 4462.8 8181.8 14516.96 5964
Solar Eclipse: 7140.48 8181.8 14516.96 5964
Lunar Eclipse 4462.8 10630.4 14516.96 5964
Solar + IS 7354.694 8181.8 14516.96 5964

Now Solar + IS calculates wrath damage increase from Imp IS talent.

Insect Swarm Calculations
*Assumes 10 wraths per eclipse*
Bonus wrath damage: 2142.144 (Tested Wrath – Tested Wrath + IS)
Insect swarm damage: 5964 (IS Damage)
Total: 8106.144 (Bonus wrath damage due to IS + IS damage)

IS adds 214.2144 damage per wrath. In order for IS to be worth it, it needs to do more then 7140.48 damage. The difference is 965.664 damage. You reach this damage if you cast IS > 11 Seconds left on Solar Eclipse, assuming no moving, this gets you your 10 wraths in.

Basically I came to the conclusion:

Moonfire (Unless about to exit Lunar Eclipse//Enter Solar Eclipse)
IS > 11 Seconds on Solar Eclipse
Renew IS until Solar eclipse.

Formula used to calculate average damage : Base*(1+1.06*Crit)

Videl · 10/10/09, 1:51 AM

I don't see why you would do calculations with unglyphed IS. Last I saw it outperforms starfall by quite a bit, unless you really wanted starfall glyphed for some reason.

qae · 10/10/09, 1:53 AM

@Akrud

I fear it might be a bit more complicated than that.
You have to take into account than everytime you cast IS outside of an Eclipse, you delay the chance to proc the next Eclipse by at least 1sec (and don't forget it will lower your NG uptime).

So I don't think IS is worth using if you don't glyph it.

Exceptions would be when moving /having to dps a mob you are not facing (Yoggy)/waiting for an interrupt (Ignis, Freya).

Another time when you could use it is in Pre-lunar phase after seeing NG pop just before the wrath hit the target, so you can switch to SF if Lunar proc.

Yet another time could be queued with the last Starfire of your Lunar Eclipse (the one that will probably proc Solar thanks to WiseEclipse). It let you go back to Starfire fast if you are really unlucky and didnt proc Solar.

Akrud · 10/10/09, 2:10 AM

Originally Posted by Videl

I don't see why you would do calculations with unglyphed IS. Last I saw it outperforms starfall by quite a bit, unless you really wanted starfall glyphed for some reason.

My guild was wanting the 3% debuff for when it WAS up

Akrud · 10/10/09, 2:14 AM

Originally Posted by qae

@Akrud

I fear it might be a bit more complicated than that.
You have to take into account than everytime you cast IS outside of an Eclipse, you delay the chance to proc the next Eclipse by at least 1sec (and don't forget it will lower your NG uptime).

So I don't think IS is worth using if you don't glyph it.

Exceptions would be when moving /having to dps a mob you are not facing (Yoggy)/waiting for an interrupt (Ignis, Freya).

Another time when you could use it is in Pre-lunar phase after seeing NG pop just before the wrath hit the target, so you can switch to SF if Lunar proc.

Yet another time could be queued with the last Starfire of your Lunar Eclipse (the one that will probably proc Solar thanks to WiseEclipse). It let you go back to Starfire fast if you are really unlucky and didnt proc Solar.

Yeah I agree, hard to calcute NG damage assuming a crit, though

• Hamlet · 10/10/09, 2:15 AM

Originally Posted by Akrud

My guild was wanting the 3% debuff for when it WAS up

Then this is a useless discussion, because you should be keeping IS up all the time anyway.

Unglyphed IS is very nearly a wash for DPS (slightly positive or slight negative depending on stats). Since the DPS difference is negligible, you should choose the option that gives a nice raid benefit by keeping IS up to apply the debuff. And if you do have the Glyph, should be keeping IS up anyway because now it's always the best DPS. In no case is there any reason to not be putting IS up.

Calmwind · 10/10/09, 10:00 AM

So I've been looking at the new T10 bonus's and I can't help but wonder how good the 2 piece is, anyone have numbers on how often OOC will proc?

kavinsky · 10/10/09, 8:44 PM

See a page above or so. 1.5- 2.5 Procs Per Minute.

Or a 6% chance on cast. Just for some RNG fun.

kavinsky · 10/10/09, 8:50 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

The preview art seems to have belts and boots: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...0_druid_hd.jpg .

Inc 2T8/2T9/4T10 BIS for Moonkin, yay.

Bear in mind though that the bracers / belt / boots only came about when SWP was added. BT was about the same size as the predicted ICC, so I'm certainly not assuming we'll get 8 options for T10.

Having off-set items that match the look would not surprise me however. Even if they probably will be resto items :S