Moonkin Raiding - Page 149

kavinsky · 10/14/09, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Beargarden

The periodic damage from your Insect Swarm and Moonfire spells grants 44 critical strike rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.

Underwhelming, very, very, very underwhelming. Probably be the last thing I buy, T10 wise, since it's 20 critical strike more than the T9 one, and the T9 one also has almost a 100% uptime, at least from my experiences with raiding.

Seeing a pattern with idols - T7 (165 Starfire SP) was damn good. T8 (384 IS SP) was laughable. T9 (200 Crit 85% on Moonfire tick) was the best idol I've ever seen. T10 (44 Crit / IS | MF tick) is reasonable, but hardly that much of an upgrade.

Definitely not seeing the wow factor here.

kavinsky · 10/14/09, 5:32 AM

Originally Posted by Grendelle

Can I substitute in my T8 (219) in for my shoulder slot and still maintain a viable dps increase over the 4P-T9?

Yes. There is (obviously) a slight stat's loss over the 226 T8, but the DPS increase from the 2 set is still a honky-tonk load more than you lose through those few stats.

Celdhyrean · 10/14/09, 1:20 PM

What's more is that (playing around with Rawr) using the ideal combination, the T8.10 shoulders still came out over the other non-ideal T8.25 item.

Beargarden · 10/14/09, 1:30 PM

I was playing around in Rawr today, and I noticed that [Living Flame] was rated pretty high (like in the top 5, without a doubt was in the top 10 on my Rawr, but I can't remember right now.)

Now my question is, would it be more viable to drop some more of my haste by switching [Icehowl Binding] with [Belt of the Bloodhoof Emissary] (while also dropping my hit rating boots for [Boots of the Harsh Winter]), and then switching out Sundial for [Living Flame]. I'd try and do my own work with SimCraft, but for the life of me I can't get that to work.

Akrud · 10/14/09, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Beargarden

I was playing around in Rawr today, and I noticed that [Living Flame] was rated pretty high (like in the top 5, without a doubt was in the top 10 on my Rawr, but I can't remember right now.)

Now my question is, would it be more viable to drop some more of my haste by switching [Icehowl Binding] with [Belt of the Bloodhoof Emissary] (while also dropping my hit rating boots for [Boots of the Harsh Winter]), and then switching out Sundial for [Living Flame]. I'd try and do my own work with SimCraft, but for the life of me I can't get that to work.

Living flame is a rather bad trinket, i'd recommend getting dying curse over it. When your using rawr, are you applying raid buffs or are you just going off your basic gear? relook at it with raid buffs if you haven't

Beargarden · 10/14/09, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Akrud

Living flame is a rather bad trinket, i'd recommend getting dying curse over it. When your using rawr, are you applying raid buffs or are you just going off your basic gear? relook at it with raid buffs if you haven't

crap man, nice catch. it fell way down after applying a full set of 25 man buffs. looks like I'll go along with my original plan to get Eye of the Broodmother.

Akrud · 10/14/09, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Beargarden

crap man, nice catch. it fell way down after applying a full set of 25 man buffs. looks like I'll go along with my original plan to get Eye of the Broodmother.

I would go with illustration of the dragon soul if you can. Also, whenever working with rawr, you should ALWAYS use full buffs otherwise the changes are irrelevent and or useless.

Knoway · 10/15/09, 2:50 AM

Originally Posted by kavinsky

Underwhelming, very, very, very underwhelming. Probably be the last thing I buy, T10 wise, since it's 20 critical strike more than the T9 one, and the T9 one also has almost a 100% uptime, at least from my experiences with raiding.

Seeing a pattern with idols - T7 (165 Starfire SP) was damn good. T8 (384 IS SP) was laughable. T9 (200 Crit 85% on Moonfire tick) was the best idol I've ever seen. T10 (44 Crit / IS | MF tick) is reasonable, but hardly that much of an upgrade.

Definitely not seeing the wow factor here.

What's the pattern?

kavinsky · 10/15/09, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Knoway

What's the pattern?

Good - Meh - Good - Meh.

Sort of like the fact that [Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] was the best balance idol in the whole game in TBC.

Your milage may vary however.

Knoway · 10/16/09, 1:34 AM

Originally Posted by kavinsky

Good - Meh - Good - Meh.

Sort of like the fact that [Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] was the best balance idol in the whole game in TBC.

Your milage may vary however.

How can T10 be 'meh' when it's the same as T9 (which is the best idol you've ever seen), except better? T8 was actually bad, T10 is not even close to bad.

rightclick · 10/16/09, 3:27 AM

T10 might lack in terms of creativity, but it is still a boost, as minor as it is.

If you are talkign about the Idol bringing something new to the game, then indeed the progression is good-meh-good-meh

Mawic · 10/16/09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by nesf

Somehow, haste scales worse for him at 410 Haste than for me at 511 Haste.

I don't believe Haste scales linearly. It's more of a sawtooth pattern, rising and falling based on how much you've currently got.

For example: Lets say you have enough haste to give you a 2.2 sec cast time on Starfire. Lunar Eclipse procs, and you're able to fit 6.8 casts in before the buff expires. The 0.8 remainder doesn't get partial credit for Eclipse. But if you get just a little bit more haste you could probably fit a full 7th cast before the buff expires. The value of Haste will spike upwards in this case, since you're near a threshold where you can pack another full cast within your rotation.

Now lets say you have enough haste to give you a 2.1 sec cast time on Starfire. Lunar Eclipse procs. With a 2.1 sec cast time, you're able to fit 7.1 casts in before the buff expires. In this case, more haste doesn't buy you much. You're nowhere near being able to fit in an 8th cast. You'd need a ton more haste to get near a 1.87 sec cast time on Starfire before you'd see the value of Haste spike again.

In reality, it's not quite so simple as this. NG procs and dot refreshing make it fairly difficult to know where those thresholds are. But if you start to see your value for Haste spike in Simcraft, try adding another 50 points and run it again. If your Haste value drops back down, it's likely that you're right on the cusp of being able to pack in an extra cast each time through your rotation and a little more haste could be a good idea.

dedmonwakeen · 10/16/09, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mawic

In reality, it's not quite so simple as this. NG procs and dot refreshing make it fairly difficult to know where those thresholds are. But if you start to see your value for Haste spike in Simcraft, try adding another 50 points and run it again. If your Haste value drops back down, it's likely that you're right on the cusp of being able to pack in an extra cast each time through your rotation and a little more haste could be a good idea.

Alternatively, increase the default lag values which are pretty low and you will see the haste "curve" smooth out considerably. Modeling random lag values is essential to getting a trustworthy haste model, or you get burned by discontinuities.

Mawic · 10/16/09, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Alternatively, increase the default lag values which are pretty low...

I'll post these here even though they're not quite on topic to this forum, because they're minimally documented elsewhere.

queue_lag=0.075
queue_lag_stddev=0.01875
gcd_lag=0.150
gcd_lag_stddev=0.0375
channel_lag=0.250
channel_lag_stddev=0.0625

Here are the parameters (and current default values) for lag in SimulationCraft. Just insert these lines into any .simcraft file to override the defaults. The value assigned to each _lag parameter is simply the number of seconds delay inserted after each queued, channeled or gcd-constrained action. If you use these default values, your simcraft output should not change. The stddev defaults aren't actually constants, but are 25% of the lag default. So if you double your queue_lag and don't specify the queue_lag_stddev, its default will automatically double as well.

In theory, if you are queueing spells the queue_lag should be left low. The gcd_lag and channel_lag should be modified to approximate your actual in-game lag. Most of the time you can do fine specifying only the three lag parameters. But if your lag fluctuates significantly you can specify the stddev parameters as well and increase them beyond the 25% default.

For most of my stats, lag doesn't have much impact on their scale factors. But haste is particularly affected by lag since it can move those threshold points where more haste allows you to pack an extra cast into your rotation.

kavinsky · 10/16/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Knoway

How can T10 be 'meh' when it's the same as T9 (which is the best idol you've ever seen), except better? T8 was actually bad, T10 is not even close to bad.

20 critical strike improvement over the T9. Admittedly prices are not yet declared, but assuming it 25 of the new emblems, I don't see myself buying it any time soon.

As always, your mileage may vary, but for the cost? this will be the last thing I buy from emblems.