Yea I am moreso talking about longer periods where you cant cast, like while kiting Anub. Personally in my situation (heavy hit gear setup) I don't need the BoP talent, so it's been kind've nice having Typhoon and the third point in Nature's Focus in my general spec.

Also my Offspec is always Feral or Resto for versatility so having a 2nd spec for Moonkin hasn't been in the cards since we learned Vezax hm.

Edit replying to below : I know what to do, but these hit items I picked up were better than the spirit ones I had at the time - and I would lose Typhoon over a point in IIS. It's kind've no comparison in my opinion.

Taken from Rawr 2.2.24.

Since we found in the Patch Notes a change to Nature's Grace which is obviously clarification, I am a bit confused if this just means rawr now reduces the gcd for the dots by calculating with NG (which I thought it did already) or if it now implements a MF Crit proccing NG (which I doubt would make sense).

/edit:
I played around with the new Rawr version and am getting even with 541 Haste, that Haste > Crit. I seemed to remember that after 401 Haste Rating that crit would grow better, so why does Rawr value Haste that high? For me its 1.88 > 1.71. I know those values have to be taken with care but I fear that Rawr will value Haste over Crit in Gear choices though it only benefits Starfire.

Wonder why this happens now...

Previously Rawr cast times for instants did not use NG. That contributed to situations where Rawr said to drop IS. Now, Rawr cast times for instants use NG (I believe it gives DoTs the same NG uptime as Wrath).

I believe WrathCalcs also gives DoTs the same NG uptime as Wrath. In both cases that is slightly too optimistic and slightly penalizes Haste (since Haste has some value during NG downtime).

The most obvious differences right now between WC and Rawr are:

1) WC has two latencies (default to .1s for SF and .2s for Wrath and instants). Rawr has a single latency (defaults to 0.2s) but it is not used for SF. The lower default SF latency in Rawr contributes to a higher relative value for Haste.

2) Rawr has a fairly sophisticated model for "proc" events. WC mostly ignores or averages them (99% benefit from Idol of Lunar Fury, no benefit from 4t8). I'm not sure how this impacts results, but it is a difference.

Not quite. What it does is give instants a "generic" NG uptime (your listed spell crit rate from gear/buffs), which may be slightly more pessimistic than that for Wrath. It would devalue haste slightly more, but the mere presence of an NG calculation for instants far increases the value of haste in the model over what it was - in fact, there was a bug about it on Codeplex a couple of weeks back, before I made the change.

It is indeed worth discussing if you keep in mind that Anub25 Hard is the hardest encounter we have to face atm and it includes AoE so the Question is: Keep IS up if not glyphed?
If not: Free 4 Talent Points to spend in Mana Reg and Gale Winds to improve Anub Performance. It is a single-encounter discussion but like Vezax Hard preNerf its one that is acutally worth being discussed

For Anub25HM, the only glyph that I considered taking was Starfall (and of course it would be remplacing IS). But after some testing I don't think it's worth it.. Add spawn every 45sec, and even with the glyph you only get Starfall every minutes.

Even if the 2nd wave of adds is not dead when Starfall get off CD, they will very soon, and Anub will be buried. It might boost your recount a little, but with no real utility.
Anyway Starfall will be up for the next wave of add after Anub comes back since it stay buried long enough.

But it get worst in "leech" phase, since adds keep coming at a 45sec interval, so you have no other alternative but using it every 1mn30sec to get the most dmg out of it, which nullify totally the benefit of the Glyph.
This is also the harder part of the fight, and the single-target dmg on Anub is really important once your raid have enough aoe dps to down the adds before the next wave. And to max single target dps.. you need Glyph of IS (even more since glyph of Starfall doesn't help anyway).

My point is : since Glyph of IS beats Glyph of Starfall on Anub25HM, then you should use IS (glyphed) even if it's an AoE-heavy fight.


Now what I found best regarding talents was 0/2 Imp MF and 0/3 Imp IS (but 1/1 IS), and use the 5 pts you get to take Typhoon and some mana regen. If you can eat your own Innervate, and find yourself with no real mana problems, you can even max Genesis to boost Hurricane dmg (because it will be a huge part of your dmg)

This is what I use on Anub :
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...Kk1N,U8S,10505
and so far I'm happy with it.

You skilled Genesis? Is Hurricane really periodic damage?

That's true. WrathCalc show's me an increase by less than 10 DPS per point, but if I got 5% more Dmg out of Hurricane for Anub, that would be great, I guess.

I tested Genesis and it DOES increase the damage of Hurricane. On Anub25HM, Hurricane will be at least 30% of your damage, which means that one point in Genesis will yield more dps than one point in Imp IS or Imp MF.

You should have 3/5 Genesis if you want to spec for this fight (because Moonglow doesn't reduce the cost of Hurricane, and Imp MF<Genesis on Anub25HM). Then you have to decide whether you need the 2 remaining point in Intensity or not.

Given that many have indicated no mana problems despite the massive amounts of hurricane used as long as they use their own innervate, I don't think you would need any more mana regen talents than one normally takes.

On a similar note, we have just started really working on Anub25HM, I was wondering how many hurricanes generally should I end up having to use per wave (disregarding the special stuff of possibly ignoring the 2nd wave till anub burrows)? I'm trying to get a general timetable/rotation to stick to with them so if we end up taking longer than we are supposed to on a wave I don't go oom from using hurricane more than I should be.

I usually use only 2 Hurricanes, because the adds will start dying during the 3rd.. And even with your Innerv you can have mana issues if you have bad luck with OoC procs. I may do a 3rd Hurricane if I have a OoC proc during the 2nd, and cancel it as soon as 1-2 adds die.

The best way to deal with the waves, in my opinion, is the following :

1st wave -> Starfall + 2x Hurricane + Typhon + 3rd Hurricane if OoC (cancel it as soon as the adds start dying and resume single target dps)

2nd wave -> NG'd Hurricane + Typhon + 2nd Hurricane -> Anub is buried finish the adds as you see fit.

3rd wave -> see 1st wave

4th wave -> NG'd Hurricane + Typhon + 2nd Hurricane + 3rd Hurrican (non NG'd, only if Ooc, cancel as soon as 1 add die, resume single target)

5th wave -> see 1st wave

repeat 4th and 5th until the end.

That's usually what I do, but you need to have a healing stream totem in your group to be able to do serious aoe in "leech" phase, because aoe don't proc JoL (and usually dpsers with no healing stream totem are supposed to be kept alive by JoL only)
So if you don't get a totem, focus on single target dmg with some Typhoons/Starfall when not afflicted by Penetrating Cold. You will be able to use Hurricane when you have the Penetrating Cold debuff because you will be topped by your healers anyway.